Stakes jam in K&D staking anvil. Suggested repair?

[robmack]

Hi,

I recently bid on and received a vintage K&D 699 staking set.  When I examined the set, I discovered that all the supplied stakes I tried only went part way down the bore of the punch's upper guide before becoming stuck.  Apparently something is interfering with them inside the guide.  I thoroughly cleaned the bore but the problem persists.   When I peer down the bore, I think I can see two spring steel bars on opposite sides but can't determine if they are the cause of the problem.  The staking punch is stamped K&D 699 New Style Special on the bottom, which might give a clue to the construction.

Is there an adjustment on this K&D staking set to ease or tighten the grip on the stake, one that I should adjust to make this work?  This is my first set so I'm not exactly sure what to expect.

Edited February 12, 2017 by robmack

[oldhippy]

Any chance of a photo or two as I do not know anything of this type. Others might be in the same boat as me.

[JohnR725]

yes a picture would be nice as they made quite a few. So I was looking at mine which is a 18R. If I insert a punch into the staking holder and let go it stays in place. I'm guessing that's the part on yours that is not correct. So we get a really confusing description I was hoping for a picture but my camera won't take a picture down the tube were the punch goes. so if a look at the bottom where the punch comes out I can see the outline of the tube. I'm guessing the top knurled part perhaps is screwed in place although mine conveniently did not want to unscrew with finger pressure. So where the punch goes is a separate tube from the frame itself. Towards the bottom there is a cut which is the confusing description on both sides allowing a little bit of the tube to protrude into the open channel that the punch goes in. So this is what provides a little bit of friction. It's possible that yours is broken if this is where the problem is. Then on mine because I reread your description it's only on one side it's not on both sides.

so I've attached an image out of the catalog the the knurled part on top is what I suspect holds the tube in place. But viewers could be entirely different.

[Marc]

I have an MKS staking set and have had a Favorite as well as a couple of others and one thing that they all had in common was that the tube into which the stake was placed was actually a sleeve which fitted into the bore of the frame proper. The axis of the bore of the sleeve was very slightly off set from the axis of the bore of the frame and the sleeve could be rotated in the frame such that the axis of its bore could be brought to exactly coincide with the circle of holes in the anvil. The sleeves were either a tight friction fit or had a grub screw to lock them in place once adjusted. @JohnR725 I suspect that the knurled collar on your staking frame is probably something similar to this set up, but having never used a K&D I could well be wrong.

I believe that K&D made quite a thing of the fact that in their staking sets you could let go of the stake without it dropping in the frame which means that they must have devised some means of providing a controlled amount of friction in the frame, and I wonder if what robmack is seeing in those 2 spring steel bars is that mechanism. If so then there should be some movement in those springs to allow the stake to pass, but enough resistance to grip. Is it possible that the springs have seized in the bore and a good soak in penetrating oil might solve the problem?

[robmack]

Hi,  I can see that a textual description of the problem can be confusing so I've attached some photos.  First is a photo of the K&D 699 staking tool.

 

As you can see, there is no knurled friction adjuster as JohnR pointed out on the Inverto series.  I think this tool is an earlier vintage that predates the Inverto series.  There does not seem to be any outside adjuster.  The photo below shows a closeup of the top of the ram.

The top looks rough like someone has taken and beaten it to within an inch of its life, but surprisingly the nickel finish is not chipping.  You can also note that there is a concentric scratch near the top of the arm where it appears maybe someone took a tool of sorts to it.  I took an endoscope camera attachment for my mobile to take a photo of the inside of the bore (BTW best ten Dollars I ever spent on an Ebay item):

The two spring bars can be seen at the top and bottom of the picture.  They don't appear to be fouling the bore from this angle.  I took a couple of stakes and inserted them into the bore, and using tape marked where they stopped.  I used a jeweler's screwdriver as a depth gauge to see how far down the spring bars were from the top of the arm.  The depth was exactly the length of the shaft of the screwdriver.  The comparison photo below shows how far down the stakes went and where the top of the spring bars would have been relative (using the length of the screwdriver shaft as the gauge).

Any ideas?  I've thinking of using a brass drift to tap gently upwards on the arm to see of the top loosens. I'll also try the penetrating oil idea.

Edited February 12, 2017 by robmack

[rogart63]

Probably a lot of crud and dirt inside the tube? Try spraying it with some penetrating oil? Use a brush or something to clean the springs? 

[robmack]

I have pipe cleaners with tiny abrasive particles embedded in them.  

They are gentle enough for pipe briar so they are fine for this application.  I've already taken a Naptha soaked pipe cleaner to the bore to get it to the stage above. It came out cruddy looking after that process.  I'll do the penetrating oil bath and try cleaning again after a day or so of that as you suggesst.

Edited February 12, 2017 by robmack

[wls1971]

The knurled nut on top should provide friction adjustment for the stake and can be altered by turning the following site as a very comprehensive expilnation of K and D staking sets http://kanddinverto.weebly.com/ and a list of patents relating to there staking sets I have a K and D 600 staking set which is an inverto model.

[rogart63]

6 minutes ago, robmack said:

I have pipe cleaners with tiny abrasive particles embedded in them.  

They are gentle enough for pipe briar so they are fine for this application.  I've already taken a Naptha soaked pipe cleaner to the bore to get it to the stage above. It came out cruddy looking after that process.  I'll do the penetrating oil bath and try cleaning again after a day or so of that as you suggesst.

That looks perfect? As for the marks on the top of the tool? Both of mine has them? Not sure why but must have been a  user that had a few pints to much? Could be hard to hold the things you about to work on and at the same time hitting the punch with the hammer? 

[Geo]

My money says there is a build up of rust behind the springs that is forcing the springs into the bore.  If this is the case removing the offending rust won't be easy. Without having it in front of me, I would guess that the springs are part of a sleeve that is the bushing for the stakes slinging through, and if this is the case it will have to be removed from the frame to allow thourogh cleaning.

[Geo]

I've just done a dit of research and my suspicions are confirmed.  Hear is an extract from a K&D patent.

"          In the preferred form of my invention, as shown in Figs. 1, 2, and 4, I enlarge the upper portion of the guide-sleeve d and countersink therein a sleeve i, provided with a plurality of spring-tongues i' i2, carrying, respectively, a semicircular bearing-face, as i3 i4, adapted to partially encompass and frictionally engage the punch or plunger h. This sleeve i may be secured within the guide- sleeve d in any desired manner; but preferably it is made a “ driving fit.”

It looks like removing the sleeve will be a real problem.  You will probably require some heat and penetrating fluid like PlusGas to remove it.

Here's a link to the whole patent script:

http://kanddinverto.weebly.com/kendrick-and-davis-patent-us707887.html

[robmack]

Oh dear.  Well, I guess I have a project in my future.

[robmack]

UPDATE:  Tried soaking the arm in penetrating oil for several days but without luck.  With some free time today, I brought the staking anvil to a machinist. He honed the bore to exactly 0.185".  Stakes are fitting perfectly now.  Very happy with the results.