Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Hello everyone and happy new year!

I'm working on a beautiful 6139B that I bought not working. The first thing I noticed was there was a missing intermediate minute recording wheel which I just got. The second thing was the central chronograph wheel complex.

I've done some looking around and unfortunately I have come out empty-handed in terms of any ability to repair the wheel. The tech-guides have limited recommendations other than replacing it when damaged.

Here are a couple pictures from it where you can see that the disc between the Chrono and the wheel is way out of flat.

2a7c210aec5e680ffe20832f766ff508.jpg

3ebab140f148b9bf77e81048d49b9ee2.jpg

d3bab51892ddfdf4f908174851b7d37c.jpg

Once assembled the watch will run pretty well with the chronograph activated. When The chronograph is stopped the train comes to an abrupt stop with it. I figure the damage wheel is not contacting the mechanism when activated.

Anyway, I was hoping to hear the experience of anybody trying to repair this part.

Cheers to 2017!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Posted (edited)

Good luck :unsure:. Never ever heard or seen that done? Maybe just maybe you could try put it in a staking tool and put some pressure on the top and very gentle try to bend it back. This wheels aren't repairable? Look for a used one on Ebay? Have seen but not sure if any is available at the movement? But no harm trying to straighten it anyway? chronowheel.jpg

 

Edited by rogart63
  • Like 1
Posted
Good luck :unsure:. Never ever heard or seen that done? Maybe just maybe you could try put it in a staking tool and put some pressure on the top and very gentle try to bend it back. This wheels aren't repairable? Look for a used one on Ebay? Have seen but not sure if any is available at the movement? But no harm trying to straighten it anyway? chronowheel.jpg

 




I have a rusted movement coming but I'm not too excited about it housing a working center wheel but it would be great!

I wonder if it can be put apart of should I give it a go at the risk of damaging another element....

There's a pristine replacement on eBay but for $88 [emoji15]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posted
1 hour ago, jguitron said:

 

 


I have a rusted movement coming but I'm not too excited about it housing a working center wheel but it would be great!

I wonder if it can be put apart of should I give it a go at the risk of damaging another element....

There's a pristine replacement on eBay but for $88 emoji15.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

There are springs inside the wheel that are in tension? If you try to take it apart they will release and you can't put them together again. 

I was thinking of how it could be bent? But probably one of the levers has been on the wrong side of the clutch ring? Bending it upwards.  

Posted

I agree with you completely. Either the lever got loose over time and the pusher was forced or when they tried to service it the lever was left on the wrong side and when activated it just bent the wheel.

It's a shame because otherwise he movement is pristine!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Posted
8 minutes ago, ro63rto said:

Also Adrian over at VintageTimeAustralia. Postage costs are reasonable even to me in UK.

At least he could give you some advise? He is a very helpful guy.  Check Wristsushi out? A forum for Seiko nerds :) 

  • Like 1
Posted
At least he could give you some advise? He is a very helpful guy.  Check Wristsushi out? A forum for Seiko nerds [emoji4] 



"We" are NOT nerds.
We prefer to go by WIS [emoji4]
  • Like 2
Posted


"We" are NOT nerds.
We prefer to go by WIS [emoji4]

Quite right! And if we are allowed to mention other specialist forums then as well as Wrist Sushi I'd also have a look at the Seiko and Citizen Watch Forum at thewatchsite.com which is also full of us nerds, oops I mean WIS (although I'm a long way from being able to call myself that!)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • Like 1
Posted

The Seiko 6139B part # for the complete center chronograph wheel is P/N 888612 .

The 6139B comes in a 17 and 21 jewel version . The chronograph finger that sits on top of the wheel is P/N 786610 and can be replaced as these are delicate and have a tendency to break . There is also a part called "Rest of chronograph finger " and that is P/N 787610 . 

I looked up the the the part # for the complete center chronograph wheel for the 6139A , and that is listed as P/N 888610 , although the the "finger' and "rest" are the same P/N for both the A and B versions .

While I was at it I looked up the center chronograph wheel for the 6138 A and B  . That uses P/N 888611 . 

 

I checked my watch parts interchangeability list and the parts aren't listed as interchangeable .

 

I found these complete units on the bay....new and used...

Screen shot 2017-01-01 at 10.05.46 PM.png

Screen shot 2017-01-01 at 10.06.46 PM.png

Screen shot 2017-01-01 at 10.07.18 PM.png

 

I didn't see Seiko listed on the Old Swiss Watches website , but I would email Sudarson and ask him if he has them .

I would also email Ramon at TheWatchCollector website because I know he has parts .

Good Luck ,...Louis

 

Posted
The Seiko 6139B part # for the complete center chronograph wheel is P/N 888612 .

The 6139B comes in a 17 and 21 jewel version . The chronograph finger that sits on top of the wheel is P/N 786610 and can be replaced as these are delicate and have a tendency to break . There is also a part called "Rest of chronograph finger " and that is P/N 787610 . 

I looked up the the the part # for the complete center chronograph wheel for the 6139A , and that is listed as P/N 888610 , although the the "finger' and "rest" are the same P/N for both the A and B versions .

While I was at it I looked up the center chronograph wheel for the 6138 A and B  . That uses P/N 888611 . 

 

I checked my watch parts interchangeability list and the parts aren't listed as interchangeable .

 

I found these complete units on the bay....new and used...

Screen shot 2017-01-01 at 10.05.46 PM.png

Screen shot 2017-01-01 at 10.06.46 PM.png

Screen shot 2017-01-01 at 10.07.18 PM.png

 

I didn't see Seiko listed on the Old Swiss Watches website , but I would email Sudarson and ask him if he has them .

I would also email Ramon at TheWatchCollector website because I know he has parts .

Good Luck ,...Louis

 




Fantastic! I had come across the 2 used ones but not the last one. It appears to be type B! I've messaged him to confirm.

Thank you for the great info!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posted
On 1/2/2017 at 3:22 AM, ricardopalamino said:

The Seiko 6139B part # for the complete center chronograph wheel is P/N 888612 .

The 6139B comes in a 17 and 21 jewel version . The chronograph finger that sits on top of the wheel is P/N 786610 and can be replaced as these are delicate and have a tendency to break . There is also a part called "Rest of chronograph finger " and that is P/N 787610 . 

I looked up the the the part # for the complete center chronograph wheel for the 6139A , and that is listed as P/N 888610 , although the the "finger' and "rest" are the same P/N for both the A and B versions .

While I was at it I looked up the center chronograph wheel for the 6138 A and B  . That uses P/N 888611 . 

 

I checked my watch parts interchangeability list and the parts aren't listed as interchangeable .

 

I found these complete units on the bay....new and used...

Screen shot 2017-01-01 at 10.05.46 PM.png

Screen shot 2017-01-01 at 10.06.46 PM.png

Screen shot 2017-01-01 at 10.07.18 PM.png

 

I didn't see Seiko listed on the Old Swiss Watches website , but I would email Sudarson and ask him if he has them .

I would also email Ramon at TheWatchCollector website because I know he has parts .

Good Luck ,...Louis

 

After trying to repair on the staking tool... I was able to bend the wheel close to normal, I assembled it again and now it runs both with the chrono function on and off, but it grinds to a stand still just before the minute is up.

So, while other information comes to light I've given in and bought one of the ebay options. There's not much out there!

 

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions!

 

Posted

A while back after servicing a 6138 or 6139 , I don't remember which , my chrono second had would stop at the 58 second mark . I did some reading and found out that this was not an uncommon problem and I was able to do the adjustments that are in the troubleshooting section of the 6139A tech sheet . I think the adjustment is for both calibers . As I said , it was a while back . Also I remember replacing part # 893612, the intermediate recording wheel holder . It's a bushing that's attached on one of the plates by a screw .

I have attached some tech sheets in case you haven't seen them .  Checking and adjusting the chronograph mechanism starts about Page 8 on the second attachment and troubleshooting is a little further  back .

This may be a moot point since you bought a new part , but there's some good info in there anyway .

 

  6139B.pdf  

Great One- 6139A.pdf.zip

  • Like 1
Posted
A while back after servicing a 6138 or 6139 , I don't remember which , my chrono second had would stop at the 58 second mark . I did some reading and found out that this was not an uncommon problem and I was able to do the adjustments that are in the troubleshooting section of the 6139A tech sheet . I think the adjustment is for both calibers . As I said , it was a while back . Also I remember replacing part # 893612, the intermediate recording wheel holder . It's a bushing that's attached on one of the plates by a screw .

I have attached some tech sheets in case you haven't seen them .  Checking and adjusting the chronograph mechanism starts about Page 8 on the second attachment and troubleshooting is a little further  back .

This may be a moot point since you bought a new part , but there's some good info in there anyway .

 

  6139B.pdf  

Great One- 6139A.pdf.zip




Oh this is totally worth it! I will dissect this chrono wheel open and post the results of the autopsy. [emoji1317]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posted
A while back after servicing a 6138 or 6139 , I don't remember which , my chrono second had would stop at the 58 second mark . I did some reading and found out that this was not an uncommon problem and I was able to do the adjustments that are in the troubleshooting section of the 6139A tech sheet . I think the adjustment is for both calibers . As I said , it was a while back . Also I remember replacing part # 893612, the intermediate recording wheel holder . It's a bushing that's attached on one of the plates by a screw .

I have attached some tech sheets in case you haven't seen them .  Checking and adjusting the chronograph mechanism starts about Page 8 on the second attachment and troubleshooting is a little further  back .

This may be a moot point since you bought a new part , but there's some good info in there anyway .

 

  6139B.pdf  

Great One- 6139A.pdf.zip




Oh this is totally worth it! I will dissect this chrono wheel open and post the results of the autopsy. [emoji1317]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posted
A while back after servicing a 6138 or 6139 , I don't remember which , my chrono second had would stop at the 58 second mark . I did some reading and found out that this was not an uncommon problem and I was able to do the adjustments that are in the troubleshooting section of the 6139A tech sheet . I think the adjustment is for both calibers . As I said , it was a while back . Also I remember replacing part # 893612, the intermediate recording wheel holder . It's a bushing that's attached on one of the plates by a screw .

I have attached some tech sheets in case you haven't seen them .  Checking and adjusting the chronograph mechanism starts about Page 8 on the second attachment and troubleshooting is a little further  back .

This may be a moot point since you bought a new part , but there's some good info in there anyway .

 

  6139B.pdf  

Great One- 6139A.pdf.zip




Oh this is totally worth it! I will dissect this chrono wheel open and post the results of the autopsy. [emoji1317]




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posted
20 hours ago, jguitron said:

After trying to repair on the staking tool... I was able to bend the wheel close to normal, I assembled it again and now it runs both with the chrono function on and off, but it grinds to a stand still just before the minute is up.

So, while other information comes to light I've given in and bought one of the ebay options. There's not much out there!

 

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions!

 

That is probably only adjusting the levers? You will have to look in the pdf how you do that?

Posted
That is probably only adjusting the levers? You will have to look in the pdf how you do that?




I thought so too but I made sure that when the chrono function is on the levers aren't touching the clutch at all and it still stops, I assume when it comes to the uneven portion of the clutch wheel.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, jguitron said:

After trying to repair on the staking tool... I was able to bend the wheel close to normal, I assembled it again and now it runs both with the chrono function on and off, but it grinds to a stand still just before the minute is up.

So, while other information comes to light I've given in and bought one of the ebay options. There's not much out there!

 

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions!

At least you have tried everything? Hope an other wheel will work? 

Edited by rogart63
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • This was what I was afraid of. The movement is not one of the generic black square modules. Remove the movement from the clock and try prying it open very carefully, without breaking the plastic tabs. The plastic might be brittle from age. Clean the wheels and check the battery contacts for corrosion. Check the PCB for bad solder joints. Take plenty of photos along the way.
    • One of the problems with trying to Photograph Phils things are that his enjoyment was building these things so they tended to E falls on what will see if I can find some earlier pictures or any pictures I wasn't even sure because I was looking for that specific picture for somebody else and even it got the last version and that would have been the last version. You will note that he put the indexing on something that he could unscrew it or whatever and it can slide back out of the way so the rest of the lathe can be used as a lathe. With the lathe cut are actually coming down from the top I was there once where he demonstrated how to cut a pivot with the setup it was really beautiful. Older set up if I remember it's not a worm gear assembly in the thing in between the stepping motor and the holding block I believe this particular one was like a 100 to 1 gear ratio. Earlier version with watchmaker's lathe. Even looks like he is the watchmakers bed and then switch to something he made. Then I do have other pictures and things of the rotary stage in use. In the raw so if you tube videos here is an example of one were somebody's mounting a three jaw chuck. At one time there were available on eBay they were not cheap but if you're patient like I was I found one cheap on eBay. After you watch the video it look at his other videos he is a whole bunch of other examples of the same rotary stage. That I do know there are other pictures examples and possibly videos you just have to track them down. One of the minor issues of finding this particular tech sheet for the unit is I believe it was a custom manufacturer and the company change their name but I remember the new name here's a link to the company https://www.ondrivesus.com/rino-mechanical-components                
    • Escapement adjusting always interesting and depending upon the reference always confusing. Okay maybe it's not always confusing but it does lead to confusion. I have a PDF below it's actually a whole bunch of separate stuff including a hand out that came from a lecture that's on you tube. Then from that we get this image Consequences of doing things especially if you do things out of order or you do things for the wrong reason. Oh and even if the watches working I made the mistake one so showing my boss how tweaking the banking pins on a full plate on the timing machine made the amplitude get better and now he thinks that's what they're for and I don't think a fully grasped exactly what horn clearance means. Consequence of doing things. Notice what it says about opening and closing the banking pins and total lock? So yes I've had that on a full plate where it won't unlock at all and that's the banking pins or a combination of things basically. So banking pins unfortunately get moved. One of the ways to tell if it's been moved is the look straight down at the end of the fork with the balance wheel removed. Power on the fork push at the one side look at it push it to the other side also look at it and compare anything with the center reference the balance jewel and see if both sides of the same. No guarantee after the same there in the right place but at least are the same typically when people play with things one side will be way off from the other because they had no idea what they were doing at all because of course it's a full plate and you really have to paying attention and even then there's still hard to do. Then the other thing that comes up like it shows below is people often adjust the banking pins to do all those other things as opposed to horn clearance which is all that it's therefore and maybe bonus Guard pin clearance although you're supposed to deal with the guard pin is a separate thing like single roller gets bent in Or out or sometimes physically gets moved in and out. Some full plates older escapement's typically pallet forks held together with screws and you can actually unscrew and move the entire assembly in Or out more complications to deal with.     Escapement handout wostep nscc.pdf
    • If he was much younger and some sort of sports player it wouldn't be a problem. They would be in there and doing surgery and he'd be back on the field in no time. Unfortunately when you get older little things are bad and big things can be really bad so not good at all.
    • Where I work everything incoming watches whatever detailed descriptions are taken entered into a computer program and photograph of each item. Then ideally although it depends on who's doing the paperwork detailed descriptions can be quite good other times there lacking. Like I really like it with pocket watches if they would record the serial number it avoids confusion later on. Then when watch repairs are completed that is also entered in. It's one of the amusements I learned when I was in school instructor had a shop and commented about the important aspect of keeping detailed records of repairs. Because oftentimes a customer who got a new crystal will come back later on when the watch doesn't work and expect you to fix the entire watch for free. Then you can remind them that they just got a crystal. Strangely enough that keeps coming up or occasionally comes up where I work now. One of the problems of using the service marks on the case is that in the case of pocket watches oftentimes that's not the original case. Then case marks? What I was doing warranty work for a company I used to describe a code number in the back of the case and it would tell me the next time I see the watch that basically what I did I made no attempt at keeping track of customers because we had literally thousands of them I think they sold 30,000 of these watches and they would come back by the hundreds because they had a lifetime warranty. Yes that's a story all of itself but I would put a code number that would reference what was done to the watch the last time and think I had a date in there somehow so it did tell a story if you knew the code. Another shop I once worked out the number would reference the page in the book. So other than knowing we had been in there you would have no idea what happened because you have to go look at the page in the book to see what happened. Then the problem of how you examine a watch you should examine the watch in detail every single time to avoid complications. Although on vintage watches and this is a of amusement I have at work when people ask something and I say of the watches done when it leaves. This is because on vintage oftentimes problems won't show up until the watches much farther into the repair like it's now running and you discover things that you can't discover before because it wasn't running to discover them that also become sometimes difficult to have exact rigid prices are estimates of repairs or in the case of a pocket watch you may not find out if a casing problem to later on when you case it up in the watches running. I was just thinking for all those people that would like to leave a mark maybe you should learn to do what some of the past watchmakers did? Leave a mark but leave it in such a way that no one will ever find it? Typically not done for repair purposes but done for other reasons like identifying it's legit. I have a friend with a Gruen watch and one of the Roman numbers the bottom line that just looks like a line under extreme magnification actually says Gruen watch company or something equivalent. So here's a link showing how to mark your watch without being seen although that's not the actual title. So if you can learn micro engraving you can engrave the watch someplace probably just about any place you just have to remember where you put it. https://cnaluxury.channelnewsasia.com/obsessions/how-to-prove-if-watches-are-authentic-secret-signatures-182516  
×
×
  • Create New...