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Elgin with a puzzling case

CKelly

By CKelly
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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CKelly WRT Addict

CKelly

Posted
Posted

Hi,
   I have taken in a couple of watches to repair. One an elgin pocket watch, is a puzzle in that it doesn't appear to have a case back and also doesn't appear to swing out from the front. When I remove the front bezel the movement does have a bit of play but not enough to allow movement to come on out. I have looked at it with two different loupes and a 20x powered microscope but can't see a seam for a back. If it were a wristwatch I would say it was a front loader and remove the stem and be good to go. Anyone had any experience with this case? Any ideas on how to proceed would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Charles K

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bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted

Hi Charles,

On the third picture it appears like there is a small indentation to hook a knife and open...is that so? I believe if so, you will have access to the movement holding screws and clamps (if so equipped) then you will be able to remove it from the front...Just a guess!

Cheers,

Bob

oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

Posted
Posted

Is there a little lever between 1 and 2 that you move in order to release the movement when you pull the button out to set the hands.

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digginstony Super WRT Addict

digginstony

Posted
Posted

Sometimes these cases have knurling sometimes they don't. Definitely looks like a screw back to me. If it's jammed through lack of maintenance you can try some WD40 around the edge and leave for a day. You could try and prise it off, if the thread is slack you might get lucky and lift the case back thread from the case thread but you risk damage.

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CKelly WRT Addict

CKelly

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To answer Bob there is definitely no slot for a knife. I can't even see a seam to imply that it would be a screw off back. I thought that it was a screw off at first but nothing budged at all when I tried to move it, I tried barehanded then with a gripper and nothing.The lever you see at about 1:30 is the set lever. I would feel better about it being a screw off back if I could see the seam where the back fits however I guess it could be so tight that I can't. Odd thing is front bezel screwed off easily and in fact it was just barely screwed on. You can probably see all the grime around the threads. Just finished the other one he wanted repaired. That one was a Tankard with a 17 jewel AS movement that was also in bad need of a cleaning and had a bent hairspring. Guess I'll see what my wife wants for dinner while I think about the elgin a bit more.

Thanks,

Charles K   

digginstony Super WRT Addict

digginstony

Posted
Posted

Elgin movements do have a lever you can pull out but that's to disengage the keyless work. To stop drag when wound outside the case and can't be seen when in the case. And looks nothing like the Lever showing on your watch

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syfre WRT Addict

syfre

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, digginstony said:

The Lever between 1 & 2 must be the release. What other purpose would it serve ? Never came across it before. Think Oldhippy has.

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It's a set level movement, like all railways movement,  you pull it to set the time.

digginstony Super WRT Addict

digginstony

Posted
Posted

I do have a pocket watch by Hunt & Roskell with a push in lever to adjust the time. Pictures below. So to go back to the original question. It has to be a screwback case. Problem with these cases, as you loosen the bezel you tend to tighten the back cover if you don't hold them a certain way. I do like these type of cases though.6098c63f0f92c0902b694a4198c3506d.jpg1e284d275dc3ba477951841d19dc0c6f.jpg

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CKelly WRT Addict

CKelly

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Ok I am now working on the assumption that the case back is a screw off back. So far I have tried opening it barehanded, used a gripper, latex gloves managed to cause my left thumb to ache a lot while I was attempting to open it with my right hand. I read somewhere that someone used hotmelt glue to glue the caseback to something you could grip and turn easier but I tried that three times and so far that back hasn't moved a fraction. I do have some screw thread loosener fluid but I have never had much luck with that. I have never had a pocket watch be this stubborn. The case actually looks pretty nice and I don't want to damage it so any other ideas out there would be appreciated.   

digginstony Super WRT Addict

digginstony

Posted
Posted

Got me beat. Willfly often writes in the forum. Believe he has quite a vast knowledge of pocket watches. You could try contacting him, sending photos. I no idea how to go about contacting him though.

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CKelly WRT Addict

CKelly

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Hi all,

   Just to let you all know my wife came up with the answer. She said that I had tried the hot melt glue but why not stick the watch to the tile on her kitchen counter so I could push down a bit as I was turning to keep the hot melt from breaking loose. I'm attaching a picture of the railroad grade movement I found as well as the new watch tool she developed.

Thanks to all,

Charles K.

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CKelly WRT Addict

CKelly

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Posted

Hi,

   Since I posted this I realized there were some members who weren't familiar with the lever set railroad watches. As I working on this watch I took a bunch of pictures and will post them under another thread.

Thanks

bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

Posted
Posted

 

15 hours ago, CKelly said:

As I working on this watch I took a bunch of pictures and will post them under another thread.

Excellent! errr....walkthrough section??? YES!!!

Thank you Charles.

Cheers,

Bob

digginstony Super WRT Addict

digginstony

Posted
Posted

I've no knowledge of the railroad lever set movement and look forward to seeing the photos. Also does anyone know the history of this type of lever set and the reasons behind it's development

Tony

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CKelly WRT Addict

CKelly

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Posted

Hi,

  I believe the lever set movement was required by the railroads for fear that a person might change the time while winding a pendant set movement. To set the time on a lever set you have to remove the front bezel, pull the lever then set the time.  I just saw a listing of railroad requirements stating jewel count, and time keeping ability and so on but for the life of me I can't remember where.

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