Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
57 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

If you’re going to use hot water, soap, then rinse, you will want to avoid leaving any parts wet under air for longer than 15 min, in which you may see rust forming. Interestingly, I found that leaving an item wet after rinsing, while waiting to dry each part individually with the blower promoted rusting far more quickly, as opposed to leaving it in the water rinse until I got around to blowing it dry with the blower. In any case, leaving any parts wet (whether under air, or submerged) is asking for rust. Try to submerge it under isopropyl alcohol as soon as possible after aqueous rinse.

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

I used soppy water to clean the movement of my grandads watch ( my first restoration).advised by a popular watch youtuber that I don't want to mention😠. I cleaned and dried it thoroughly, 2 months later it was almost completely  ruined. If I hadn't checked why it was performing poorly it would have been. Rust had taken hold very quickly. I've never put water anywhere near a movement  since. 

  • Thanks 1
Posted
23 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

What is your drying technique? I used a commercial watch cleaning machine for years that was built to use water based cleaner, rinsing in alcohol, then dried in a warm air flow. Never ever had a rust issue.

Posted
1 minute ago, nickelsilver said:

What is your drying technique? I used a commercial watch cleaning machine for years that was built to use water based cleaner, rinsing in alcohol, then dried in a warm air flow. Never ever had a rust issue.

I leave the parts in the mini- baskets, place in a sieve and borrow my partner's hair drier. 

Posted (edited)

I use tiny jam jars, fill them with „Benzinum“ from the pharmacy store, put the parts in and close the airtight lids. Then I put the jars into my (not heated!) ultrasonic cleaner for 15 minutes. No smell at all! After cleaning I put the parts on a sheet of paper for drying. The parts get dry in seconds. I‘m satisfied with the result so far.

With water based cleaning I got severe rust problems.

Edited by Kalanag
Posted
1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I used soppy water to clean the movement of my grandads watch ( my first restoration).advised by a popular watch youtuber that I don't want to mention😠. I cleaned and dried it thoroughly, 2 months later it was almost completely  ruined. If I hadn't checked why it was performing poorly it would have been. Rust had taken hold very quickly. I've never put water anywhere near a movement  since. 

Richard. I have to say , be very careful with any rust removing products. There will be some good ones. I was unlucky enough to use rustins  rust remover, it is very caustic. After almost ruining my grandfather's watch, I needed to set about removing it from different  areas. I decided to submerge the escape wheel in the product overnight, # too much too long #. By the morning it had almost dissolved  completely. Choose one wisely, I've heard the wd40 one is quite good, but I really say having not tried it. I sometimes use vinegar, it works OK but still be careful. Try a test area first if possible. 

Posted
On 4/16/2022 at 9:16 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Richard. I have to say , be very careful with any rust removing products. There will be some good ones. I was unlucky enough to use rustins  rust remover, it is very caustic. After almost ruining my grandfather's watch, I needed to set about removing it from different  areas. I decided to submerge the escape wheel in the product overnight, # too much too long #. By the morning it had almost dissolved  completely. Choose one wisely, I've heard the wd40 one is quite good, but I really say having not tried it. I sometimes use vinegar, it works OK but still be careful. Try a test area first if possible. 

If you use rust remover on steel parts with pivots, it will put a thin layer of iron phosphate onto your steel pivots. I don’t think that’s a good idea...

 

On 4/16/2022 at 7:43 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

You can’t let the isopropyl alcohol evaporate on its own. You have to keep blowing it with air until it evaporates, and any transient condensation evaporated too. Or you can blow with warm air so it doesn’t have any condensation...

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Posted
On 4/16/2022 at 9:44 PM, ifibrin said:

If you use rust remover on steel parts with pivots, it will put a thin layer of iron phosphate onto your steel pivots. I don’t think that’s a good idea...

It wasn't, lol. Any immersion immediately  starts a reaction. It was late and I was silly to go to bed and leave it. Six hours later I was left with a small blob of black something, quite  different  from how I left it 😥

 

On 4/16/2022 at 9:44 PM, ifibrin said:

If you use rust remover on steel parts with pivots, it will put a thin layer of iron phosphate onto your steel pivots. I don’t think that’s a good idea...

Thanks ifibrin, I will check ingredients  next time. But I think I will stick to vinegar for the time being. Only now you have me wondering what damage that can do. It does seem to work well with no adverse affects.

 

On 4/16/2022 at 8:10 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

I leave the parts in the mini- baskets, place in a sieve and borrow my partner's hair drier. 

Haha. Exactly  the same as I used to do, until I had a bad experience  with a travel hairdryer and a divers watch bezel. I now leave a gentle heat source and a minature fan under the sieve for a good hour. I'm going to make something better  at sum point.

  • Haha 1
Posted
4 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. Exactly  the same as I used to do, until I had a bad experience  with a travel hairdryer and a divers watch bezel. I now leave a gentle heat source and a minature fan under the sieve for a good hour. I'm going to make something better  at sum point.

I have to be careful, the hair dryer is hurricane force and hotter than the sun.

  • Haha 1
Posted
On 4/16/2022 at 9:04 PM, Kalanag said:

I use tiny jam jars, fill them with „Benzinum“ from the pharmacy store, put the parts in and close the airtight lids. Then I put the jars into my (not heated!) ultrasonic cleaner for 15 minutes. No smell at all! After cleaning I put the parts on a sheet of paper for drying. The parts get dry in seconds. I‘m satisfied with the result so far.

With water based cleaning I got severe rust problems.

Hi Kal. I did try glass jars but observed the waves were greatly reduced. I switched to a plastic tub, clip suspended to the side of the sonic cleaner. The waves seemed much better, but the clips restricted being able to put a lid on the tub.

 

On 4/16/2022 at 8:07 PM, nickelsilver said:

What is your drying technique? I used a commercial watch cleaning machine for years that was built to use water based cleaner, rinsing in alcohol, then dried in a warm air flow. Never ever had a rust issue.

I'm thinking of making something Heath Robinson style. ( Google if you don't know who he Is ). It's an old saying amongst older tradesmen in the UK. 

 

On 4/16/2022 at 10:26 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

I have to be careful, the hair dryer is hurricane force and hotter than the sun.

Haha. Yes my sorry looking divers bezel can firmly clarify this.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
8 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi Kal. I did try glass jars but observed the waves were greatly reduced. I switched to a plastic tub, clip suspended to the side of the sonic cleaner. The waves seemed much better, but the clips restricted being able to put a lid on the tub.

What is benzinum, Googled it but not available. I'm in the UK. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

What is benzinum, Googled it but not available. I'm in the UK. 

I've not heard of that exact product. But Benzine has been used for a long time, though pros will not consider it as something they would use. I use mostly Naptha which is commonly in lighter fuel. 

  • Thanks 1
Posted
1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I've not heard of that exact product. But Benzine has been used for a long time, though pros will not consider it as something they would use. I use mostly Naptha which is commonly in lighter fuel. 

Could I skip the water and just use isopropyl.  Lighter fluid for the pallet and balance? 

Posted
On 4/16/2022 at 10:46 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

I've not heard of that exact product. But Benzine has been used for a long time, though pros will not consider it as something they would use. I use mostly Naptha which is commonly in lighter fuel. 

The cheapest I have found but have yet to try is denatured alcohol.  Or purple meths. Approx 6 pound per litre. #Not#to use on balance or pallet fork. I love to experiment.

 

On 4/16/2022 at 10:49 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Could I skip the water and just use isopropyl.  Lighter fluid for the pallet and balance? 

I would want anything waterbased to be fully and clearly demonstrated that it's OK to use, after my experience with my grandfather's watch.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
24 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'm thinking of making something Heath Robinson style. ( Google if you don't know who he Is ). It's an old saying amongst older tradesmen in the UK. 

I know who he was.

Posted (edited)
On 4/16/2022 at 10:56 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

I would want anything waterbased to be fully and clearly demonstrated that it's OK to use, after my experience with my grandfather's watch. Maybe ok to be used in the right hands, but I will never risk it again.

 

 

On 4/16/2022 at 10:56 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

I know who he was.

Haha. Predecessor of the A Team

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
  • Haha 1
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I've not heard of that exact product. But Benzine has been used for a long time, though pros will not consider it as something they would use. I use mostly Naptha which is commonly in lighter fuel. 

„Benzinum“ is pharmaceutical Benzine for cleaning the skin around wounds. It is similar to lighter fluid, mainly Naphta and very clean. Here in Germany it costs about the same as a good lighter fluid.

CDCC907E-3DDD-4FE4-97E6-29C39BA46F84.jpeg

Edited by Kalanag
  • Thanks 2
Posted
8 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

What is your drying technique? I used a commercial watch cleaning machine for years that was built to use water based cleaner, rinsing in alcohol, then dried in a warm air flow. Never ever had a rust issue.

 

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. Predecessor of the A Team

 

4 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Some pics would be nice 😀

 

37 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

„Benzinum“ is pharmaceutical Benzine for cleaning the skin around wounds. It is similar to lighter fluid, mainly Naphta and very clean. Here in Germany it costs about the same as a good lighter fluid.

Thanks, I'll look for some and give it a go. 

 

Posted
8 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

Hi Rich. I've been doing a bit of research on cleaners. Naptha with it being petroleum based, even though hi graded it's possible some residue can remain. I personally only use it on the balance and pallet fork as it is easy on the shellac there, but dry it straight away so it doesn't get chance to film over.The elma Pro definitely  leaves a film. What results are you getting with the isopropyl? 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi Rich. I've been doing a bit of research on cleaners. Naptha with it being petroleum based, even though hi graded it's possible some residue can remain. I personally only use it on the balance and pallet fork as it is easy on the shellac there, but dry it straight away so it doesn't get chance to film over.The elma Pro definitely  leaves a film. What results are you getting with the isopropyl? 

Haven't tried it by itself yet, I'll let you know when I do. 

  • Thanks 1
Posted
On 4/17/2022 at 4:16 AM, RichardHarris123 said:

 

 

 

 

Give isopropyl a go as well but not on the balance  or the pallet fork. Let us know what you think. Naptha may leave a film if left to dry on its own. These are mostly used by hobbyists only

 

On 4/17/2022 at 4:25 AM, RichardHarris123 said:

Haven't tried it by itself yet, I'll let you know when I do. 

It's a pure alcohol so might be better. Have a word with some of the pros to see what they think. Ebay sells it at 21 quid for a gallon so really cheap. 

 

On 4/17/2022 at 5:03 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

It's a pure alcohol so might be better. Have a word with some of the pros to see what they think. Ebay sells it at 21 quid for a gallon so really cheap. 

Well so my Ive had my I never put anything water based near my watch movements again plans scuppered.  I just searched vinegar content. 90 odd % water. I give up 🤔

 

On 4/17/2022 at 5:20 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Well so my Ive had my I never put anything water based near my watch movements again plans scuppered.  I just searched vinegar content. 90 odd % water. I give up 🤔

so 20 mins of research and i think I've got something together. 4 main types of alcohol, strength  lowest to highest. 1 Ethyl or ethanol , grain based used in our favourite drinks, 2 methanol or meths, made from methane, a lovely violet colour, denatured to stop muppets drinking it, tastes bitter and smells bad. Used to clean things and disinfect 90 -94 % approx alcohol. 3 rubbing alcohol,  used for cleaning wounds etc, thinned down isopropyl approx 95 % alcohol . 4 pure isopropyl made from propylene gas, for cleaning and disinfecting 99.9% alcohol. So personally I'm going for no.4 and will be having clean covid free watches. Someone else can research  acetic acid  and acetone 🥵

 

On 4/17/2022 at 6:26 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

so 20 mins of research and i think I've got something together. 4 main types of alcohol, strength  lowest to highest. 1 Ethyl or ethanol , grain based used in our favourite drinks, 2 methanol or meths, made from methane, a lovely violet colour, denatured to stop muppets drinking it, tastes bitter and smells bad. Used to clean things and disinfect 90 -94 % approx alcohol. 3 rubbing alcohol,  used for cleaning wounds etc, thinned down isopropyl approx 95 % alcohol . 4 pure isopropyl made from propylene gas, for cleaning and disinfecting 99.9% alcohol. So personally I'm going for no.4 and will be having clean covid free watches. Someone else can research  acetic acid  and acetone 🥵

No problem Yorkshire buddy, good Easter Sunday to you. Are you tinkering today ?

 

On 4/17/2022 at 6:26 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

so 20 mins of research and i think I've got something together. 4 main types of alcohol, strength  lowest to highest. 1 Ethyl or ethanol , grain based used in our favourite drinks, 2 methanol or meths, made from methane, a lovely violet colour, denatured to stop muppets drinking it, tastes bitter and smells bad. Used to clean things and disinfect 90 -94 % approx alcohol. 3 rubbing alcohol,  used for cleaning wounds etc, thinned down isopropyl approx 95 % alcohol . 4 pure isopropyl made from propylene gas, for cleaning and disinfecting 99.9% alcohol. So personally I'm going for no.4 and will be having clean covid free watches. Someone else can research  acetic acid  and acetone 🥵

The isopropyl seems to be a no brainer for watch cleaning barring balance and pallet. Especially considering its only 21 pound per gallon on ebay. I would love to hear any thoughts on its use from the pros please. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
Posted
On 4/17/2022 at 9:53 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

The isopropyl seems to be a no brainer for watch cleaning barring balance and pallet

I've yet to service a watch having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. I believe it's basically just "very old" watches having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. So, all the watches I've serviced so far (not that many) have had their impulse pin friction fitted.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Posted
On 4/22/2022 at 3:01 PM, VWatchie said:

I've yet to service a watch having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. I believe it's basically just "very old" watches having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. So, all the watches I've serviced so far (not that many) have had their impulse pin friction fitted.

Thanks for that matey. I'm having a work  day today. I'll catch you later👍

 

On 4/22/2022 at 3:01 PM, VWatchie said:

I've yet to service a watch having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. I believe it's basically just "very old" watches having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. So, all the watches I've serviced so far (not that many) have had their impulse pin friction fitted.

I'll check that out, I do have some 1940s. Vintage. But i can check from now on if the balance can take a strong  solvent.My gallon arrived today, I need to have a play now. I was planning on just using ipa from now on. Except the pallet of course.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'll check that out, I do have some 1940s. Vintage. But i can check from now on if the balance can take a strong  solvent.My gallon arrived today, I need to have a play now. I was planning on just using ipa from now on. Except the pallet of course.

I love IPA. Indian Pale Ale, one of my favourite beers.  Hehe. 

I'm doing the same, ipa other than the pallet.  Using used ipa for the first clean, fresh ipa for the final.  

Posted
2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'll check that out, I do have some 1940s. Vintage. But i can check from now on if the balance can take a strong  solvent.My gallon arrived today, I need to have a play now. I was planning on just using ipa from now on. Except the pallet of course.

Are you planning to use IPA as your only cleaner? It's not a very good cleaner for grease and oil, at all. It's a very good absorber of water, if using water based cleaners, and must have a generally good effect as a rinse as multiple Swiss manufacturers spec it as the final rinse in machines running petroleum based cleaners. But it, on its own, for cleaning, isn't very good.

  • Like 2

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • One of the problems with trying to Photograph Phils things are that his enjoyment was building these things so they tended to E falls on what will see if I can find some earlier pictures or any pictures I wasn't even sure because I was looking for that specific picture for somebody else and even it got the last version and that would have been the last version. You will note that he put the indexing on something that he could unscrew it or whatever and it can slide back out of the way so the rest of the lathe can be used as a lathe. With the lathe cut are actually coming down from the top I was there once where he demonstrated how to cut a pivot with the setup it was really beautiful. Older set up if I remember it's not a worm gear assembly in the thing in between the stepping motor and the holding block I believe this particular one was like a 100 to 1 gear ratio. Earlier version with watchmaker's lathe. Even looks like he is the watchmakers bed and then switch to something he made. Then I do have other pictures and things of the rotary stage in use. In the raw so if you tube videos here is an example of one were somebody's mounting a three jaw chuck. At one time there were available on eBay they were not cheap but if you're patient like I was I found one cheap on eBay. After you watch the video it look at his other videos he is a whole bunch of other examples of the same rotary stage. That I do know there are other pictures examples and possibly videos you just have to track them down. One of the minor issues of finding this particular tech sheet for the unit is I believe it was a custom manufacturer and the company change their name but I remember the new name here's a link to the company https://www.ondrivesus.com/rino-mechanical-components                
    • Escapement adjusting always interesting and depending upon the reference always confusing. Okay maybe it's not always confusing but it does lead to confusion. I have a PDF below it's actually a whole bunch of separate stuff including a hand out that came from a lecture that's on you tube. Then from that we get this image Consequences of doing things especially if you do things out of order or you do things for the wrong reason. Oh and even if the watches working I made the mistake one so showing my boss how tweaking the banking pins on a full plate on the timing machine made the amplitude get better and now he thinks that's what they're for and I don't think a fully grasped exactly what horn clearance means. Consequence of doing things. Notice what it says about opening and closing the banking pins and total lock? So yes I've had that on a full plate where it won't unlock at all and that's the banking pins or a combination of things basically. So banking pins unfortunately get moved. One of the ways to tell if it's been moved is the look straight down at the end of the fork with the balance wheel removed. Power on the fork push at the one side look at it push it to the other side also look at it and compare anything with the center reference the balance jewel and see if both sides of the same. No guarantee after the same there in the right place but at least are the same typically when people play with things one side will be way off from the other because they had no idea what they were doing at all because of course it's a full plate and you really have to paying attention and even then there's still hard to do. Then the other thing that comes up like it shows below is people often adjust the banking pins to do all those other things as opposed to horn clearance which is all that it's therefore and maybe bonus Guard pin clearance although you're supposed to deal with the guard pin is a separate thing like single roller gets bent in Or out or sometimes physically gets moved in and out. Some full plates older escapement's typically pallet forks held together with screws and you can actually unscrew and move the entire assembly in Or out more complications to deal with.     Escapement handout wostep nscc.pdf
    • If he was much younger and some sort of sports player it wouldn't be a problem. They would be in there and doing surgery and he'd be back on the field in no time. Unfortunately when you get older little things are bad and big things can be really bad so not good at all.
    • Where I work everything incoming watches whatever detailed descriptions are taken entered into a computer program and photograph of each item. Then ideally although it depends on who's doing the paperwork detailed descriptions can be quite good other times there lacking. Like I really like it with pocket watches if they would record the serial number it avoids confusion later on. Then when watch repairs are completed that is also entered in. It's one of the amusements I learned when I was in school instructor had a shop and commented about the important aspect of keeping detailed records of repairs. Because oftentimes a customer who got a new crystal will come back later on when the watch doesn't work and expect you to fix the entire watch for free. Then you can remind them that they just got a crystal. Strangely enough that keeps coming up or occasionally comes up where I work now. One of the problems of using the service marks on the case is that in the case of pocket watches oftentimes that's not the original case. Then case marks? What I was doing warranty work for a company I used to describe a code number in the back of the case and it would tell me the next time I see the watch that basically what I did I made no attempt at keeping track of customers because we had literally thousands of them I think they sold 30,000 of these watches and they would come back by the hundreds because they had a lifetime warranty. Yes that's a story all of itself but I would put a code number that would reference what was done to the watch the last time and think I had a date in there somehow so it did tell a story if you knew the code. Another shop I once worked out the number would reference the page in the book. So other than knowing we had been in there you would have no idea what happened because you have to go look at the page in the book to see what happened. Then the problem of how you examine a watch you should examine the watch in detail every single time to avoid complications. Although on vintage watches and this is a of amusement I have at work when people ask something and I say of the watches done when it leaves. This is because on vintage oftentimes problems won't show up until the watches much farther into the repair like it's now running and you discover things that you can't discover before because it wasn't running to discover them that also become sometimes difficult to have exact rigid prices are estimates of repairs or in the case of a pocket watch you may not find out if a casing problem to later on when you case it up in the watches running. I was just thinking for all those people that would like to leave a mark maybe you should learn to do what some of the past watchmakers did? Leave a mark but leave it in such a way that no one will ever find it? Typically not done for repair purposes but done for other reasons like identifying it's legit. I have a friend with a Gruen watch and one of the Roman numbers the bottom line that just looks like a line under extreme magnification actually says Gruen watch company or something equivalent. So here's a link showing how to mark your watch without being seen although that's not the actual title. So if you can learn micro engraving you can engrave the watch someplace probably just about any place you just have to remember where you put it. https://cnaluxury.channelnewsasia.com/obsessions/how-to-prove-if-watches-are-authentic-secret-signatures-182516  
    • I have acquired a Citizen Leopard 36000 watch. My reason for purchasing it was my desire to own a timepiece with a 36,000 BPH movement, and the price was reasonable. Another motivating factor was gaining hands-on experience with the mechanism. The watch is in good condition, but I intend to fully disassemble it for maintenance. First and foremost, if anyone has prior experience with this particular model, I would greatly appreciate their insights. I do not have access to Citizen’s specialized lubricants and will need to use the ones available to me, such as 9010, 8000, and 8300 grease. Additionally, I do not possess the appropriate oil for the pallet jewels and will only be able to clean them.
×
×
  • Create New...