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57 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

If you’re going to use hot water, soap, then rinse, you will want to avoid leaving any parts wet under air for longer than 15 min, in which you may see rust forming. Interestingly, I found that leaving an item wet after rinsing, while waiting to dry each part individually with the blower promoted rusting far more quickly, as opposed to leaving it in the water rinse until I got around to blowing it dry with the blower. In any case, leaving any parts wet (whether under air, or submerged) is asking for rust. Try to submerge it under isopropyl alcohol as soon as possible after aqueous rinse.

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

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5 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

I used soppy water to clean the movement of my grandads watch ( my first restoration).advised by a popular watch youtuber that I don't want to mention😠. I cleaned and dried it thoroughly, 2 months later it was almost completely  ruined. If I hadn't checked why it was performing poorly it would have been. Rust had taken hold very quickly. I've never put water anywhere near a movement  since. 

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23 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

What is your drying technique? I used a commercial watch cleaning machine for years that was built to use water based cleaner, rinsing in alcohol, then dried in a warm air flow. Never ever had a rust issue.

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1 minute ago, nickelsilver said:

What is your drying technique? I used a commercial watch cleaning machine for years that was built to use water based cleaner, rinsing in alcohol, then dried in a warm air flow. Never ever had a rust issue.

I leave the parts in the mini- baskets, place in a sieve and borrow my partner's hair drier. 

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I use tiny jam jars, fill them with „Benzinum“ from the pharmacy store, put the parts in and close the airtight lids. Then I put the jars into my (not heated!) ultrasonic cleaner for 15 minutes. No smell at all! After cleaning I put the parts on a sheet of paper for drying. The parts get dry in seconds. I‘m satisfied with the result so far.

With water based cleaning I got severe rust problems.

Edited by Kalanag
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1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I used soppy water to clean the movement of my grandads watch ( my first restoration).advised by a popular watch youtuber that I don't want to mention😠. I cleaned and dried it thoroughly, 2 months later it was almost completely  ruined. If I hadn't checked why it was performing poorly it would have been. Rust had taken hold very quickly. I've never put water anywhere near a movement  since. 

Richard. I have to say , be very careful with any rust removing products. There will be some good ones. I was unlucky enough to use rustins  rust remover, it is very caustic. After almost ruining my grandfather's watch, I needed to set about removing it from different  areas. I decided to submerge the escape wheel in the product overnight, # too much too long #. By the morning it had almost dissolved  completely. Choose one wisely, I've heard the wd40 one is quite good, but I really say having not tried it. I sometimes use vinegar, it works OK but still be careful. Try a test area first if possible. 

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On 4/16/2022 at 9:16 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Richard. I have to say , be very careful with any rust removing products. There will be some good ones. I was unlucky enough to use rustins  rust remover, it is very caustic. After almost ruining my grandfather's watch, I needed to set about removing it from different  areas. I decided to submerge the escape wheel in the product overnight, # too much too long #. By the morning it had almost dissolved  completely. Choose one wisely, I've heard the wd40 one is quite good, but I really say having not tried it. I sometimes use vinegar, it works OK but still be careful. Try a test area first if possible. 

If you use rust remover on steel parts with pivots, it will put a thin layer of iron phosphate onto your steel pivots. I don’t think that’s a good idea...

 

On 4/16/2022 at 7:43 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

You can’t let the isopropyl alcohol evaporate on its own. You have to keep blowing it with air until it evaporates, and any transient condensation evaporated too. Or you can blow with warm air so it doesn’t have any condensation...

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On 4/16/2022 at 9:44 PM, ifibrin said:

If you use rust remover on steel parts with pivots, it will put a thin layer of iron phosphate onto your steel pivots. I don’t think that’s a good idea...

It wasn't, lol. Any immersion immediately  starts a reaction. It was late and I was silly to go to bed and leave it. Six hours later I was left with a small blob of black something, quite  different  from how I left it 😥

 

On 4/16/2022 at 9:44 PM, ifibrin said:

If you use rust remover on steel parts with pivots, it will put a thin layer of iron phosphate onto your steel pivots. I don’t think that’s a good idea...

Thanks ifibrin, I will check ingredients  next time. But I think I will stick to vinegar for the time being. Only now you have me wondering what damage that can do. It does seem to work well with no adverse affects.

 

On 4/16/2022 at 8:10 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

I leave the parts in the mini- baskets, place in a sieve and borrow my partner's hair drier. 

Haha. Exactly  the same as I used to do, until I had a bad experience  with a travel hairdryer and a divers watch bezel. I now leave a gentle heat source and a minature fan under the sieve for a good hour. I'm going to make something better  at sum point.

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4 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. Exactly  the same as I used to do, until I had a bad experience  with a travel hairdryer and a divers watch bezel. I now leave a gentle heat source and a minature fan under the sieve for a good hour. I'm going to make something better  at sum point.

I have to be careful, the hair dryer is hurricane force and hotter than the sun.

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On 4/16/2022 at 9:04 PM, Kalanag said:

I use tiny jam jars, fill them with „Benzinum“ from the pharmacy store, put the parts in and close the airtight lids. Then I put the jars into my (not heated!) ultrasonic cleaner for 15 minutes. No smell at all! After cleaning I put the parts on a sheet of paper for drying. The parts get dry in seconds. I‘m satisfied with the result so far.

With water based cleaning I got severe rust problems.

Hi Kal. I did try glass jars but observed the waves were greatly reduced. I switched to a plastic tub, clip suspended to the side of the sonic cleaner. The waves seemed much better, but the clips restricted being able to put a lid on the tub.

 

On 4/16/2022 at 8:07 PM, nickelsilver said:

What is your drying technique? I used a commercial watch cleaning machine for years that was built to use water based cleaner, rinsing in alcohol, then dried in a warm air flow. Never ever had a rust issue.

I'm thinking of making something Heath Robinson style. ( Google if you don't know who he Is ). It's an old saying amongst older tradesmen in the UK. 

 

On 4/16/2022 at 10:26 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

I have to be careful, the hair dryer is hurricane force and hotter than the sun.

Haha. Yes my sorry looking divers bezel can firmly clarify this.

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8 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi Kal. I did try glass jars but observed the waves were greatly reduced. I switched to a plastic tub, clip suspended to the side of the sonic cleaner. The waves seemed much better, but the clips restricted being able to put a lid on the tub.

What is benzinum, Googled it but not available. I'm in the UK. 

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5 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

What is benzinum, Googled it but not available. I'm in the UK. 

I've not heard of that exact product. But Benzine has been used for a long time, though pros will not consider it as something they would use. I use mostly Naptha which is commonly in lighter fuel. 

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1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I've not heard of that exact product. But Benzine has been used for a long time, though pros will not consider it as something they would use. I use mostly Naptha which is commonly in lighter fuel. 

Could I skip the water and just use isopropyl.  Lighter fluid for the pallet and balance? 

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On 4/16/2022 at 10:46 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

I've not heard of that exact product. But Benzine has been used for a long time, though pros will not consider it as something they would use. I use mostly Naptha which is commonly in lighter fuel. 

The cheapest I have found but have yet to try is denatured alcohol.  Or purple meths. Approx 6 pound per litre. #Not#to use on balance or pallet fork. I love to experiment.

 

On 4/16/2022 at 10:49 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

Could I skip the water and just use isopropyl.  Lighter fluid for the pallet and balance? 

I would want anything waterbased to be fully and clearly demonstrated that it's OK to use, after my experience with my grandfather's watch.

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On 4/16/2022 at 10:56 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

I would want anything waterbased to be fully and clearly demonstrated that it's OK to use, after my experience with my grandfather's watch. Maybe ok to be used in the right hands, but I will never risk it again.

 

 

On 4/16/2022 at 10:56 PM, RichardHarris123 said:

I know who he was.

Haha. Predecessor of the A Team

Edited by Neverenoughwatches
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4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I've not heard of that exact product. But Benzine has been used for a long time, though pros will not consider it as something they would use. I use mostly Naptha which is commonly in lighter fuel. 

„Benzinum“ is pharmaceutical Benzine for cleaning the skin around wounds. It is similar to lighter fluid, mainly Naphta and very clean. Here in Germany it costs about the same as a good lighter fluid.

CDCC907E-3DDD-4FE4-97E6-29C39BA46F84.jpeg

Edited by Kalanag
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8 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

What is your drying technique? I used a commercial watch cleaning machine for years that was built to use water based cleaner, rinsing in alcohol, then dried in a warm air flow. Never ever had a rust issue.

 

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Haha. Predecessor of the A Team

 

4 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Some pics would be nice 😀

 

37 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

„Benzinum“ is pharmaceutical Benzine for cleaning the skin around wounds. It is similar to lighter fluid, mainly Naphta and very clean. Here in Germany it costs about the same as a good lighter fluid.

Thanks, I'll look for some and give it a go. 

 

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8 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I take it straight out of the water and straight into isopropyl.  I have still had problems with rust.  Maybe I need to improve my drying technique. 

Hi Rich. I've been doing a bit of research on cleaners. Naptha with it being petroleum based, even though hi graded it's possible some residue can remain. I personally only use it on the balance and pallet fork as it is easy on the shellac there, but dry it straight away so it doesn't get chance to film over.The elma Pro definitely  leaves a film. What results are you getting with the isopropyl? 

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3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi Rich. I've been doing a bit of research on cleaners. Naptha with it being petroleum based, even though hi graded it's possible some residue can remain. I personally only use it on the balance and pallet fork as it is easy on the shellac there, but dry it straight away so it doesn't get chance to film over.The elma Pro definitely  leaves a film. What results are you getting with the isopropyl? 

Haven't tried it by itself yet, I'll let you know when I do. 

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On 4/17/2022 at 4:16 AM, RichardHarris123 said:

 

 

 

 

Give isopropyl a go as well but not on the balance  or the pallet fork. Let us know what you think. Naptha may leave a film if left to dry on its own. These are mostly used by hobbyists only

 

On 4/17/2022 at 4:25 AM, RichardHarris123 said:

Haven't tried it by itself yet, I'll let you know when I do. 

It's a pure alcohol so might be better. Have a word with some of the pros to see what they think. Ebay sells it at 21 quid for a gallon so really cheap. 

 

On 4/17/2022 at 5:03 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

It's a pure alcohol so might be better. Have a word with some of the pros to see what they think. Ebay sells it at 21 quid for a gallon so really cheap. 

Well so my Ive had my I never put anything water based near my watch movements again plans scuppered.  I just searched vinegar content. 90 odd % water. I give up 🤔

 

On 4/17/2022 at 5:20 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Well so my Ive had my I never put anything water based near my watch movements again plans scuppered.  I just searched vinegar content. 90 odd % water. I give up 🤔

so 20 mins of research and i think I've got something together. 4 main types of alcohol, strength  lowest to highest. 1 Ethyl or ethanol , grain based used in our favourite drinks, 2 methanol or meths, made from methane, a lovely violet colour, denatured to stop muppets drinking it, tastes bitter and smells bad. Used to clean things and disinfect 90 -94 % approx alcohol. 3 rubbing alcohol,  used for cleaning wounds etc, thinned down isopropyl approx 95 % alcohol . 4 pure isopropyl made from propylene gas, for cleaning and disinfecting 99.9% alcohol. So personally I'm going for no.4 and will be having clean covid free watches. Someone else can research  acetic acid  and acetone 🥵

 

On 4/17/2022 at 6:26 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

so 20 mins of research and i think I've got something together. 4 main types of alcohol, strength  lowest to highest. 1 Ethyl or ethanol , grain based used in our favourite drinks, 2 methanol or meths, made from methane, a lovely violet colour, denatured to stop muppets drinking it, tastes bitter and smells bad. Used to clean things and disinfect 90 -94 % approx alcohol. 3 rubbing alcohol,  used for cleaning wounds etc, thinned down isopropyl approx 95 % alcohol . 4 pure isopropyl made from propylene gas, for cleaning and disinfecting 99.9% alcohol. So personally I'm going for no.4 and will be having clean covid free watches. Someone else can research  acetic acid  and acetone 🥵

No problem Yorkshire buddy, good Easter Sunday to you. Are you tinkering today ?

 

On 4/17/2022 at 6:26 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

so 20 mins of research and i think I've got something together. 4 main types of alcohol, strength  lowest to highest. 1 Ethyl or ethanol , grain based used in our favourite drinks, 2 methanol or meths, made from methane, a lovely violet colour, denatured to stop muppets drinking it, tastes bitter and smells bad. Used to clean things and disinfect 90 -94 % approx alcohol. 3 rubbing alcohol,  used for cleaning wounds etc, thinned down isopropyl approx 95 % alcohol . 4 pure isopropyl made from propylene gas, for cleaning and disinfecting 99.9% alcohol. So personally I'm going for no.4 and will be having clean covid free watches. Someone else can research  acetic acid  and acetone 🥵

The isopropyl seems to be a no brainer for watch cleaning barring balance and pallet. Especially considering its only 21 pound per gallon on ebay. I would love to hear any thoughts on its use from the pros please. 

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On 4/17/2022 at 9:53 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

The isopropyl seems to be a no brainer for watch cleaning barring balance and pallet

I've yet to service a watch having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. I believe it's basically just "very old" watches having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. So, all the watches I've serviced so far (not that many) have had their impulse pin friction fitted.

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On 4/22/2022 at 3:01 PM, VWatchie said:

I've yet to service a watch having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. I believe it's basically just "very old" watches having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. So, all the watches I've serviced so far (not that many) have had their impulse pin friction fitted.

Thanks for that matey. I'm having a work  day today. I'll catch you later👍

 

On 4/22/2022 at 3:01 PM, VWatchie said:

I've yet to service a watch having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. I believe it's basically just "very old" watches having the impulse pin fixed with shellac. So, all the watches I've serviced so far (not that many) have had their impulse pin friction fitted.

I'll check that out, I do have some 1940s. Vintage. But i can check from now on if the balance can take a strong  solvent.My gallon arrived today, I need to have a play now. I was planning on just using ipa from now on. Except the pallet of course.

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1 minute ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'll check that out, I do have some 1940s. Vintage. But i can check from now on if the balance can take a strong  solvent.My gallon arrived today, I need to have a play now. I was planning on just using ipa from now on. Except the pallet of course.

I love IPA. Indian Pale Ale, one of my favourite beers.  Hehe. 

I'm doing the same, ipa other than the pallet.  Using used ipa for the first clean, fresh ipa for the final.  

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2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I'll check that out, I do have some 1940s. Vintage. But i can check from now on if the balance can take a strong  solvent.My gallon arrived today, I need to have a play now. I was planning on just using ipa from now on. Except the pallet of course.

Are you planning to use IPA as your only cleaner? It's not a very good cleaner for grease and oil, at all. It's a very good absorber of water, if using water based cleaners, and must have a generally good effect as a rinse as multiple Swiss manufacturers spec it as the final rinse in machines running petroleum based cleaners. But it, on its own, for cleaning, isn't very good.

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