How to print consolidated results?

[Microbrandowner]

We are using a Witschi Watch Expert 4 in our workshop. We test  our watches in multiple positions before they're packed and ready to go to our customers. We have recently added a printer to the setup and are trying to include test results in watches that go back to customers after a service. Strangely, when we hit the 'print' icon, the timegrapher only prints the results of the current watch position. Say we test the watch with CH, and then CB for 10 seconds each, and then hit print - the printer only spits out the results for the last position (CB). How do we get the printer to spit out the consolidated results for all positions that we tested for the watch?

[oldhippy]

You need to contact the manufacturer. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, Microbrandowner said:

We are using a Witschi Watch Expert 4 in our workshop. We test  our watches in multiple positions before they're packed and ready to go to our customers. We have recently added a printer to the setup and are trying to include test results in watches that go back to customers after a service. Strangely, when we hit the 'print' icon, the timegrapher only prints the results of the current watch position. Say we test the watch with CH, and then CB for 10 seconds each, and then hit print - the printer only spits out the results for the last position (CB). How do we get the printer to spit out the consolidated results for all positions that we tested for the watch?

Surely instructions are included with the equipment , if not then downloadable from the manufacturer's site. There should also be contact info for customer support. 

35 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

You need to contact the manufacturer. 

i thought you'd be well clued up on this stuff OH .

[Microbrandowner]

9 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You need to contact the manufacturer. 

Thank you.

Does that mean it is supposed to print consolidated results the way we are doing it? Or, are you suggesting I contact the manufacturer to ask them how to print consolidated results?

9 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Surely instructions are included with the equipment

I referred to the manual. It provides instructions to print - not specifically the consolidated results. I will look through it again and come back here when I find out how.

[Nucejoe]

10 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You need to contact the manufacturer. 

 

10 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You need to contact the manufacturer. 

 

10 hours ago, oldhippy said:

You need to contact the manufacturer. 

...............................

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, Microbrandowner said:

Thank you.

Does that mean it is supposed to print consolidated results the way we are doing it? Or, are you suggesting I contact the manufacturer to ask them how to print consolidated results?

I referred to the manual. It provides instructions to print - not specifically the consolidated results. I will look through it again and come back here when I find out how.

Reading a little about this tg and a write-up it appears it saves a six position screen test for recall to print off or all tests can be saved to a flash drive for later viewing and printing.

19 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 

 

...............................

 

Eyup ive just had a thought Joe, they could " contact the manufacturer ".  Dont know why anyone else couldn't think of that

[Nucejoe]

11 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup ive just had a thought Joe, they could " contact the manufacturer ".  Dont know why anyone else couldn't think of that

Hi matey !     

Repeat after me, if you will.

We love you OH. 

We love you OH.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi matey !     

Repeat after me, if you will.

We love you OH. 

We love you OH.

 

I'll think about it, i don't want him getting any strange ideas

[oldhippy]

12 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Surely instructions are included with the equipment , if not then downloadable from the manufacturer's site. There should also be contact info for customer support. 

i thought you'd be well clued up on this stuff OH .

Here are the two timing machines I had both are far superior to the modern ones of today The first burns holes in the paper you start it by turning that knob on the right side. The second works with ink it has a block inside that you have to fill and then reconnect it. Both have plastic dials and you move them so at the lines and this tell s you how much you need to adjust the regulator. The second has a lead with a clip so you can time small clocks but I didn't find it any good. You see they were the good old days. 

Edited August 13, 2024 by oldhippy

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

Here are the two timing machines I had both are far superior to the modern ones of today The first burns holes in the paper you start it by turning that knob on the right side. The second works with ink it has a block inside that you have to fill and then reconnect it. Both have plastic dials and you move them so at the lines and this tell s you how much you need to adjust the regulator. The second has a lead with a clip so you can time small clocks but I didn't find it any good. You see they were the good old days. 

The one under question i believe is in the region of 3 grand.

I believe I'll stick with my cheapo Chinese for now .

[rjenkinsgb]

19 hours ago, Microbrandowner said:

How do we get the printer to spit out the consolidated results for all positions that we tested for the watch?

 

According to the user manual for that machine that I found on the Boley site, the only print option is in effect a "Print screen" function that prints whatever is on screen at the time.

It can either print the screen image or save the screen grab to USB.

On that basis, you would have to print the result for each position, as you evaluate the watch.

 

(It would have to be able to store multiple readings - and have controls to save each result when you have the desired stable display & to tell it you are starting again with a different watch - to print a multi-reading report).

 

[JohnR725]

16 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Surely instructions are included with the equipment , if not then downloadable from the manufacturer's site. There should also be contact info for customer support.

It's interesting with witschi is you what the technical manual you basically have to have an account because all you can get is the sales brochures off the website. Otherwise if you need a manual you'll have to look elsewhere

 

4 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Here are the two timing machines I had both are far superior to the modern ones of today

Actually what is far superior is the users manual for your first machine. The user manuals extremely detailed and assumes the watchmaker doesn't know what a timing machine is and it spells out everything is truly one of the most outstanding manuals for understanding What you can do with the timing machine. Then just think burning holes in paper you don't have to have ribbon if you just still find the paper?

 

20 hours ago, Microbrandowner said:

Say we test the watch with CH, and then CB for 10 seconds each, and then hit print

I suppose it depends upon the watch you're doing but that isn't the proper procedure. It be nice to get a caliber so I can find the procedure for you but usually to wind the watch up and let it run at least 15 minutes. Then depending upon the watch is supposed to wait about 20 seconds each time you change of position and then typically in measure for about 30 to 40 seconds it just depends upon the watch 10 seconds is way way too fast to be changing positions and measuring you're going to really miss things although it would look much better for the customer if they didn't know what was going on. So how about a caliber and we might build get you some timing specs perhaps

then which are probably going to need to do is email witschi tell Them the problem and get back to us so we know for the future in case somebody else asks.

[nickelsilver]

34 minutes ago, rjenkinsgb said:

 

According to the user manual for that machine that I found on the Boley site, the only print option is in effect a "Print screen" function that prints whatever is on screen at the time.

It can either print the screen image or save the screen grab to USB.

On that basis, you would have to print the result for each position, as you evaluate the watch.

 

(It would have to be able to store multiple readings - and have controls to save each result when you have the desired stable display & to tell it you are starting again with a different watch - to print a multi-reading report).

 

I read through the manual (found it here), and this is what I concluded too. I know they have at least one other machine that allows showing positions when using a manual microphone, not sure of the model; would make sense for this one to too, but, no. The older little Watch Experts had a print function as well, but as with this one, just what's on the screen.

 

As John said they aren't forthcoming with tech info; I have an account as I bought my Witschi Chronoscope S1 new (way back in 2007), but I can only access the manual for that machine. A few years ago they had more stuff available, to everyone.

[Microbrandowner]

41 minutes ago, rjenkinsgb said:

According to the user manual for that machine that I found on the Boley site, the only print option is in effect a "Print screen" function that prints whatever is on screen at the time.

It can either print the screen image or save the screen grab to USB.

On that basis, you would have to print the result for each position, as you evaluate the watch.

(It would have to be able to store multiple readings - and have controls to save each result when you have the desired stable display & to tell it you are starting again with a different watch - to print a multi-reading report).

 

Thanks for looking into this @rjenkinsgb. 

The machine has two print options:

1) When the test is ongoing, if I were to hit the 'print' icon (it is a touchscreen display), the machine will print the results of the current watch positon. The print looks something like this (attached image).

2) When the test is ongoing, if I were to hit the "pause" button, and then the 'print' icon, the machine will print the result of the current watch position, _including_ the current graph from the screen.

The machine _does_ store multiple readings - if you see the image, reading 1 was dial-up position, and reading 2 was crown-down position. The machine does remember the graphs of those two positions, but won't print the consolidated result of the specific position.

44 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

I suppose it depends upon the watch you're doing but that isn't the proper procedure. It be nice to get a caliber so I can find the procedure for you but usually to wind the watch up and let it run at least 15 minutes. Then depending upon the watch is supposed to wait about 20 seconds each time you change of position and then typically in measure for about 30 to 40 seconds it just depends upon the watch 10 seconds is way way too fast to be changing positions and measuring you're going to really miss things although it would look much better for the customer if they didn't know what was going on. So how about a caliber and we might build get you some timing specs perhaps

then which are probably going to need to do is email witschi tell Them the problem and get back to us so we know for the future in case somebody else asks.

Appreciate this insight @JohnR725. I am not a watchmaker, I am a brand owner and I am putting together our workshop with a watchmaker in residence. I understand 10 seconds is too short - that was just an example. Irrespective of the timing specs, our Witschi can't seem to print consolidated results. 

[nickelsilver]

If you find you are doing a lot of actual adjustment, busy shop, it's nice to have a couple of machines. One for direct reading "at the bench", and one that can do positional timing automatically and print the results. The full cycle for 6 positions ends up at several minutes for 30s positions (plus stabilization time) to a quarter hour or more if doing 1m or more in positions. The non-automatic machine really can be a simple Chinese one, but it's nice to have some of the features of proper pro machines too.

 

While seemingly painfully expensive, pro level gear does come with a big perk- they work, all the time, usually all day, for years/decades; which when you count on it for your living is usually money in the bank. My Chronoscope S1 is 17 years old now, and I estimate it's seen at least 15,000 full cycles on the automatic mic, and it works as the day I bought it.

 

Witschi used to be the only game in town for automatic machines, then the Chinese began offering one, and more recently another Swiss brand has come along, H2i with their OneOf machines. I don't have any long-term experience with them, but they seem really innovative and well built; a brand I was doing some work for has a couple of the full auto ones and they are really cool. The manual mics, I believe, also offer more options than Witschi- though it seems Witschi has felt the pressure and have come out with more modern stuff too.

 

Not to shill for H2i- I'm just glad that Witschi's stranglehold on the pro market has been loosened. When I bought mine, I really wanted something from my beloved Greiner, but they didn't have an automatic mic, which is essential to me.

Edited August 13, 2024 by nickelsilver

[Microbrandowner]

10 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

If you find you are doing a lot of actual adjustment, busy shop, it's nice to have a couple of machines. One for direct reading "at the bench", and one that can do positional timing automatically and print the results. The full cycle for 6 positions ends up at several minutes for 30s positions (plus stabilization time) to a quarter hour or more if doing 1m or more in positions. The non-automatic machine really can be a simple Chinese one, but it's nice to have some of the features of proper pro machines too.

 

While seemingly painfully expensive, pro level gear does come with a big perk- they work, all the time, usually all day, for years/decades; which when you count on it for your living is usually money in the bank. My Chronoscope S1 is 17 years old now, and I estimate it's seen at least 15,000 full cycles on the automatic mic, and it works as the day I bought it.

 

Witschi used to be the only game in town for automatic machines, then the Chinese began offering one, and more recently another Swiss brand has come along, H2i with their OneOf machines. I don't have any long-term experience with them, but they seem really innovative and well built; a brand I was doing some work for has a couple of the full auto ones and they are really cool. The manual mics, I believe, also offer more options than Witschi- though it seems Witschi has felt the pressure and have come out with more modern stuff too.

 

Not to shill for H2i- I'm just glad that Witschi's stranglehold on the pro market has been loosened. When I bought mine, I really wanted something from my beloved Greiner, but they didn't have an automatic mic, which is essential to me.

This is very cool info on H2i, I looked up their product list and it all looks very impressive. 

I am not a watchmaker, I am a business owner. My aim is to make an investment once and not have to think about the reliability or service issues. So, we went with Witschi albeit expensive. We're just figuring out how to get everything to work together proper to meet our requirement. Cheers!

[praezis]

Happy new world - the user can choose now from 32’400 different orientations of the mic and ponder what the result will mean … 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, praezis said:

Happy new world - the user can choose now from 32’400 different orientations of the mic and ponder what the result will mean … 

Well thats me totally screwed in the new world then, i ponder what the result means looking at just one position

[nickelsilver]

Since this is a timing machine thread now, just want to say I love paper tape machines. I was so fast doing dynamic poise with them, the protractor thingie and a pencil and bim bam boom. Eventually adapted to the lcd screen, but those paper machines will pick up cylinder, duplex, detent, whatever escapement and give dots without complaint. Also, Greiner and Vibrograf made amplitude meters (I have for both ).

 

I know OneOf is a little extreme () with positions, but I always wanted a machine that does 8 vertical positions automatically. I do 8 for dynamic poise.

 

On that note- I have Frank's (praezis) software for timing with a Vibrograf mic on my computer, and his automatic heavy spot detection has so far been spot on, using 4 positions. I keep trying to beat it though. (If the amp is too low it tells you to FO, smart software )

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

s John said they aren't forthcoming with tech info; I have an account as I bought my Witschi Chronoscope S1 new (way back in 2007), but I can only access the manual for that machine. A few years ago they had more stuff available, to everyone.

The interesting thing is I found with witschi is? At work we were able a register all of our equipment and access the website. I was able to download all of the technical information plus some supplemental documents. Then they updated to the new system and the people at work never bothered to update their account so we lost the old account who knows of love or get it again which is sad because is able to do for more updates on the machine.

Then I had attempted to register my witschi watch expert two and I had an account but I couldn't access anything it would lead me in but when they updated to the new system I got a email and I was able to get in. But with the new system exactly as you describe you can only access the information for your machine being able to download everything technical is now not available

then one of the big differences between the new machines versus the old is all the new ones appear to be running Windows CE. So all sorts of things are possible appraiser possible etc. but their manuals really suck.

7 hours ago, Microbrandowner said:

Witschi can't seem to print consolidated results.

Email witschi ask why it can't and then suggest that since the machine is capable of all this nifty stuff you should Be able to have a print out for the customer. The nice thing about software-based machines they can do an update fix the problem.