Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Aloha All,

I recently bought this Seitz tool on eBay, but it is missing some pushers reamers.  I ended up ordering new parts for those that were missing before I received the actual Seitz tool (bad idea).   Upon inspecting the pushers/bits, I noticed 23 of the 56 provided with the set had no numbers. Further inspection revealed a huge difference in the quality of those unnumbered.  Do all Seitz pushers/bits have a number on them?  I'm pretty sure that 33 of the 56 I received are cheap Chinese knockoffs.  The worst part is that I ordered $80 of parts to replace the missing pushers/bits, and now I'm looking to return the tool.

I'm not crazy, right? If these are Seitz parts, they should all be numbered, correct? The first two pictures are the Seitz (numbered), and the other pictures are the suspect parts.  Will I even be able to get a refund? 

Thanks,

Frank

 

  

0001.jpg

0002.jpg

0003.jpg

0005.jpg

eBay.jpg

Posted

All I can say is  the set I used  was quite old and belonged to my master and it was complete the parts were numbered.  What you might have are cheap replacements could be made in the likes of China who make cheep crap. 

  • Like 1
Posted

Thanks, OH!

I agree with you. I'm currently looking at them under magnification, and they are consistent in shape and form for each section (flat pushers, pump pushers, concave, reamers, etc.). Though, a few are in bad condition and need to be replaced.  Before I cancel the return I have already initiated on eBay, can any of our members check to see if there are inconsistencies in markings on their sets?

Also, I have included a snapshot of the bottom of one of the pump pushers, which are very unique in shape.  Can someone tell me if the bottoms of their pump pushers match this photo? 

I'm hoping that Seitz had some inconsistencies in manufacturing over the years regarding markings.  Crossing my fingers.

I appreciate you guys.

Frank

Bottom of pump pusher.jpg

Posted

I have two Seitz sets, one ancient (with the 3mm anvils) and one just old (with 4mm anvils) plus a collection of spare pushers of assorted vintage. Not one of them is marked with it's size. Something which I have found very irritating when I have been using the tool and not returning pushers to their correct place in the tray every time as it means that I have to get the calipers out and measure them.

These were bought as sets and collectively I have over 100 pushers so it would seem highly unlikely (if not inconceivable) that they are all cheap knock offs, especially as they are old enough to pre-date the prevalence of the Chinese knock off industry (at least as applied to watch making tools). I therefore believe them to be original Seitz parts. And there is no numbering.

The shape of the bottom of the pump pushers is the same as your photo. The only thing that may not be the same is that the slotted insert (looks like a screw but is in fact a bayonet) should be brass. Yours looks the same colour as the steel but that could just be the lighting.

Posted

Outstanding, Marc! Your information is really helpful and clears this up, especially given that yours were purchased as sets. Thanks, man.

So, it appears I jumped the gun on this one, but I am relieved. I will say, though, that all of my reamers and concave pushers are number-stamped and appear to be of better quality.  Also, the bayonets on my pushers are actually the same color as the steel.  The next thing to do is restore the heads of these pushers with some polishing paper.  Alex at the Watch Repair channel has a nice little video on this.  

I appreciate your help!

Frank

     

Posted
37 minutes ago, Hawaiikook808 said:

The next thing to do is restore the heads of these pushers with some polishing paper. 

You better use a flat grinding stone for this. Seitz provided a (rare) round one from Degussit.

Frank

  • Like 1
Posted

Another Question.  Does this reamer look like it fits the reamer plunger? 

This one and all the others feel like they should push in all the way. Are they made like that so they don't turn or move when reaming a hole?

Thanks.

Frank

Reamer pusher.jpg

Posted
18 minutes ago, Hawaiikook808 said:

Does this reamer look like it fits the reamer plunger?

Yep, that's exactly how it should fit. The reamer shank is tapered and the socket in the spindle is also tapered so that the one centers in the other and is gripped tightly. If there is any wobble when the reamer is seated as far it will go then there is a problem.

The cross hole in the spindle is to allow you the push the reamer back out again. If the reamer seated much deeper then it would limit the access for pushing it back out again.

Here is one of mine for comparison.

20240503_115854.thumb.jpg.1154f95d735387ee8309952309789344.jpg

  • Like 3
Posted

Thanks again, Marc.  Super helpful.

I was wondering what the hole was for, and now it makes perfect sense. With your help and the other members here, it looks like I'm good to go with my Seitz tool set. I had to order some replacement pushers, but with those, the set is complete and in good condition.

Now, I need to figure out what tool to buy to measure jewels (amongst other watch-related parts). I had my eye on the JKA Feintaster micrometers, but people get crazy bidding on them for $400-600 USD.

image.png.40ddc97266c82ea73f87c8b8da7460c5.png

I was thinking of just a regular digital micrometer (Mitutoyo). Thoughts? 

Mahalo.

Frank

 image.thumb.png.b94ef0e131219b43b37c18c58484363f.png

 

 

Posted

Right now I'm making do with a similar micrometer (the one below is $45 shipped but you can find better deals) and a $20 stand. You do have to be excruciatingly careful measuring jewels, since there's no table, but if you don't have the $500 to throw around, it's a nice option.

s-l1600.thumb.jpg.5899c855cc11c91c1315f4d0998faca2.jpg

image.png.2c8796dd9db7bce5d1363dcc3051d2e5.png

Posted

Thanks, ManSkirtBrew. 

I started looking for a setup like yours and ran across this.  It was about half the price of the JKA Feintaster (depending on what auction you were in), and it's a Bergeon.  I bought it because I thought the price was fair (eBay - Buy it now), and I'm a sucker for vintage tools. It also has a table, so it should be easy to use for measuring jewels. I wonder if the the contact points can be changed out. Bergeon seems to manufacture new tables and accessories for the contemporary dial version. What do you guys think of it?

I'm sorry this post seems to have taken a detour. I'm new here so let me know if I should start a new topic.

image.thumb.png.9c7333954db8850c0aba7cd004e76d27.png

  • Like 2
Posted

I too got lucky with a JKA Feintaster for a bit under £200, they seem to go for around £400 which I find silly as a brand new one from cousinsuk is less money.

 

Tom

  • Like 1
Posted

@Hawaiikook808 I have got to the point now if I see something interesting on eBay I check cousinsuk etc. for new prices as a lot of stuff is often posted for more than new for some strange reason.

 

Tom

  • Like 2
  • 5 weeks later...
Posted
On 5/3/2024 at 1:51 PM, Hawaiikook808 said:

Thanks again, Marc.  Super helpful.

I was wondering what the hole was for, and now it makes perfect sense. With your help and the other members here, it looks like I'm good to go with my Seitz tool set. I had to order some replacement pushers, but with those, the set is complete and in good condition.

Now, I need to figure out what tool to buy to measure jewels (amongst other watch-related parts). I had my eye on the JKA Feintaster micrometers, but people get crazy bidding on them for $400-600 USD.

image.png.40ddc97266c82ea73f87c8b8da7460c5.png

I was thinking of just a regular digital micrometer (Mitutoyo). Thoughts? 

Mahalo.

Frank

 image.thumb.png.b94ef0e131219b43b37c18c58484363f.png

 

 

You might want to look for "thickness gauges". They are used for measuring things like paper or leather etc. They are spring loaded like the feintaster. If you file a small section out of one of the anvils, you can measure balance staffs the same way as you can with a feintaster. They are cheap as well (found these for €10..).

Screenshot_20240603_231549_Chrome.jpg

  • Like 3
Posted
On 5/2/2024 at 10:15 AM, Marc said:

have two Seitz sets, one ancient (with the 3mm anvils) and one just old (with 4mm anvils) plus a collection of spare pushers of assorted vintage. Not one of them is marked with it's size

I have an old 4mm Seitz set and I seem to pushers with and without size markings. So some are from the original set and others were replaced. But surely all of them are pre-Chinese clone era. So Seitz may have done differently over time. 

  • Like 1
Posted
On 5/3/2024 at 5:51 AM, Hawaiikook808 said:

Now, I need to figure out what tool to buy to measure jewels (amongst other watch-related parts). I had my eye on the JKA Feintaster micrometers, but people get crazy bidding on them for $400-600 USD.

image.png.40ddc97266c82ea73f87c8b8da7460c5.png

I was thinking of just a regular digital micrometer (Mitutoyo). Thoughts?

 image.thumb.png.b94ef0e131219b43b37c18c58484363f.png

 

I don't understand the crazy prices on used JKA Feintasters.  Cheaper to buy new from CousinsUK and less likely to have issues.

I have a micrometer like this or my analog Mitutoyo.  Having the little table to set things on is nice.

My Seitz set has mostly unmarked pushers.  Some are marked but that's likely because the watchmaker that I bought it from has multiple sets and was able to give me a mostly complete set by stealing some pushers from a partial set.

s-l1600.jpg

  • Like 2

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • One of the problems with trying to Photograph Phils things are that his enjoyment was building these things so they tended to E falls on what will see if I can find some earlier pictures or any pictures I wasn't even sure because I was looking for that specific picture for somebody else and even it got the last version and that would have been the last version. You will note that he put the indexing on something that he could unscrew it or whatever and it can slide back out of the way so the rest of the lathe can be used as a lathe. With the lathe cut are actually coming down from the top I was there once where he demonstrated how to cut a pivot with the setup it was really beautiful. Older set up if I remember it's not a worm gear assembly in the thing in between the stepping motor and the holding block I believe this particular one was like a 100 to 1 gear ratio. Earlier version with watchmaker's lathe. Even looks like he is the watchmakers bed and then switch to something he made. Then I do have other pictures and things of the rotary stage in use. In the raw so if you tube videos here is an example of one were somebody's mounting a three jaw chuck. At one time there were available on eBay they were not cheap but if you're patient like I was I found one cheap on eBay. After you watch the video it look at his other videos he is a whole bunch of other examples of the same rotary stage. That I do know there are other pictures examples and possibly videos you just have to track them down. One of the minor issues of finding this particular tech sheet for the unit is I believe it was a custom manufacturer and the company change their name but I remember the new name here's a link to the company https://www.ondrivesus.com/rino-mechanical-components                
    • Escapement adjusting always interesting and depending upon the reference always confusing. Okay maybe it's not always confusing but it does lead to confusion. I have a PDF below it's actually a whole bunch of separate stuff including a hand out that came from a lecture that's on you tube. Then from that we get this image Consequences of doing things especially if you do things out of order or you do things for the wrong reason. Oh and even if the watches working I made the mistake one so showing my boss how tweaking the banking pins on a full plate on the timing machine made the amplitude get better and now he thinks that's what they're for and I don't think a fully grasped exactly what horn clearance means. Consequence of doing things. Notice what it says about opening and closing the banking pins and total lock? So yes I've had that on a full plate where it won't unlock at all and that's the banking pins or a combination of things basically. So banking pins unfortunately get moved. One of the ways to tell if it's been moved is the look straight down at the end of the fork with the balance wheel removed. Power on the fork push at the one side look at it push it to the other side also look at it and compare anything with the center reference the balance jewel and see if both sides of the same. No guarantee after the same there in the right place but at least are the same typically when people play with things one side will be way off from the other because they had no idea what they were doing at all because of course it's a full plate and you really have to paying attention and even then there's still hard to do. Then the other thing that comes up like it shows below is people often adjust the banking pins to do all those other things as opposed to horn clearance which is all that it's therefore and maybe bonus Guard pin clearance although you're supposed to deal with the guard pin is a separate thing like single roller gets bent in Or out or sometimes physically gets moved in and out. Some full plates older escapement's typically pallet forks held together with screws and you can actually unscrew and move the entire assembly in Or out more complications to deal with.     Escapement handout wostep nscc.pdf
    • If he was much younger and some sort of sports player it wouldn't be a problem. They would be in there and doing surgery and he'd be back on the field in no time. Unfortunately when you get older little things are bad and big things can be really bad so not good at all.
    • Where I work everything incoming watches whatever detailed descriptions are taken entered into a computer program and photograph of each item. Then ideally although it depends on who's doing the paperwork detailed descriptions can be quite good other times there lacking. Like I really like it with pocket watches if they would record the serial number it avoids confusion later on. Then when watch repairs are completed that is also entered in. It's one of the amusements I learned when I was in school instructor had a shop and commented about the important aspect of keeping detailed records of repairs. Because oftentimes a customer who got a new crystal will come back later on when the watch doesn't work and expect you to fix the entire watch for free. Then you can remind them that they just got a crystal. Strangely enough that keeps coming up or occasionally comes up where I work now. One of the problems of using the service marks on the case is that in the case of pocket watches oftentimes that's not the original case. Then case marks? What I was doing warranty work for a company I used to describe a code number in the back of the case and it would tell me the next time I see the watch that basically what I did I made no attempt at keeping track of customers because we had literally thousands of them I think they sold 30,000 of these watches and they would come back by the hundreds because they had a lifetime warranty. Yes that's a story all of itself but I would put a code number that would reference what was done to the watch the last time and think I had a date in there somehow so it did tell a story if you knew the code. Another shop I once worked out the number would reference the page in the book. So other than knowing we had been in there you would have no idea what happened because you have to go look at the page in the book to see what happened. Then the problem of how you examine a watch you should examine the watch in detail every single time to avoid complications. Although on vintage watches and this is a of amusement I have at work when people ask something and I say of the watches done when it leaves. This is because on vintage oftentimes problems won't show up until the watches much farther into the repair like it's now running and you discover things that you can't discover before because it wasn't running to discover them that also become sometimes difficult to have exact rigid prices are estimates of repairs or in the case of a pocket watch you may not find out if a casing problem to later on when you case it up in the watches running. I was just thinking for all those people that would like to leave a mark maybe you should learn to do what some of the past watchmakers did? Leave a mark but leave it in such a way that no one will ever find it? Typically not done for repair purposes but done for other reasons like identifying it's legit. I have a friend with a Gruen watch and one of the Roman numbers the bottom line that just looks like a line under extreme magnification actually says Gruen watch company or something equivalent. So here's a link showing how to mark your watch without being seen although that's not the actual title. So if you can learn micro engraving you can engrave the watch someplace probably just about any place you just have to remember where you put it. https://cnaluxury.channelnewsasia.com/obsessions/how-to-prove-if-watches-are-authentic-secret-signatures-182516  
    • I have acquired a Citizen Leopard 36000 watch. My reason for purchasing it was my desire to own a timepiece with a 36,000 BPH movement, and the price was reasonable. Another motivating factor was gaining hands-on experience with the mechanism. The watch is in good condition, but I intend to fully disassemble it for maintenance. First and foremost, if anyone has prior experience with this particular model, I would greatly appreciate their insights. I do not have access to Citizen’s specialized lubricants and will need to use the ones available to me, such as 9010, 8000, and 8300 grease. Additionally, I do not possess the appropriate oil for the pallet jewels and will only be able to clean them.
×
×
  • Create New...