Jump to content

1972 Bulova President "E" Sea King 11ACACB movement


Recommended Posts

Recently picked this guy up, and took it apart for cleaning tonight.

Looks super clean inside as far as wear and tear goes, but there are puddles of oil everywhere! Hopefully a good cleaning will bring the amplitude back up.

I did learn that the automatic bridge is spring loaded, which you can see below in the yard sale of wheels and gears all over the place.

Sorry in advance for all the pictures and if some aren't in perfect focus. I take a lot of progress pictures through my microscope, and I figure if someone is here looking for help, they might be useful to them.

IMG_20240415_212615.thumb.jpg.db3dec290a8db8462354ea68f90e2b6c.jpg

20240416174430459.thumb.png.a1e4905e2bd9242996949ac798a67e16.png20240416174005899.thumb.png.baacbe292e0dda8a2977a5e36ff476a5.png20240416173841502.thumb.png.81cc2485fa74057bc857c70e6d57bee6.png20240416173718320.thumb.png.23e63cb13cfc11d99ce9c772550b6d2e.png20240416173555864.thumb.png.6e4600ee881b4c9c3e2605ced7179a64.png20240416173225793.thumb.png.e6cc16e9898ba4549992971cfb8f0565.png20240416173213458.thumb.png.967079d35d8f0cda6177f4ccb850758d.png20240416173057405.thumb.png.8012d7c312e77b76f0230fbfcfe7bc1e.pngstartingtimegraph.thumb.png.3cc13fd2b5c085c53083f4b9c8609b1b.png

20240416172551620.thumb.png.f9b9f2c415807f038330a719c31fc397.png20240416172128837.thumb.png.8c510c7d133f0514be0a64d8351d7453.png20240416171829053.thumb.png.1773ce5b6dc63065da030bd22d4bbddf.png20240416170915335.thumb.png.3fa79d552c11626893c93369d763ee86.png20240416170601114.thumb.png.04614dda28785a7a29580c14b98d88d2.png20240416165706146.thumb.png.909bb1142470fe6e20cf3b9bf9310684.png20240416165225514.thumb.png.97110b167408187f19ea05f6e1b87b05.png20240416165135969.thumb.png.18a8714dc7e6c1529878fc57414b2231.png20240416165114440.thumb.png.944d141f869cdb863053e22f70df77c3.png

 

And this is where I stopped, since I got into the wine.

IMG_20240416_175002.thumb.jpg.03978d48f31bf16f5011ebe9c3145219.jpg

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 11AN/11AO family is probably my most worked on movement (working on one right now). I've had the auto bridge spring into the ether myself. Bulova tells how to wind down the mainspring in their tech sheet but I've never had success following their instructions. There are definitely some quirks with the movement:

  • oiling the upper sweep second wheel pivot and the dial side pivot of one of the auto works wheels which is inconveniently placed between the spokes of the escape wheel.
  • the Date Corrector Setting Wheel has to be placed in the exactly correct orientation or the quickset date change will not work.
  • the setting wheel that interacts with the sliding clutch goes chamfer up.


I've made my own 'tech sheet' for it and shared it in case it's of use to anyone.

Bulova 11AOACB.pdf

Edited by GuyMontag
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

This is tremendous and will save me a ton of research, thank you!

 

2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

the Date Corrector Setting Wheel has to be placed in the exactly correct orientation or the quickset date change will not work.

Looks like mine is 90 degrees off from your picture. Might explain why my quickset wasn't working.

2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

the setting wheel that interacts with the sliding clutch goes chamfer up.

I noted this during disassembly! And the intermediate wheel right next to it was chamfer down.

While I've got you here, do you happen to have a diagram of how the automatic works goes together?

2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

The 11AN/11AO

Also I just noticed I misread the movement on the automatic weight! I'll see if I can fix the title...I cannot. So if anyone is searching, it's an 11AOACB.

Edited by ManSkirtBrew
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the reverser wheels came off with the bridge but they are interchangeable.

auto-works.thumb.jpg.bf9bcd7382e337c00e3754d488e7e0f3.jpg

The Bulova tech sheet also has a diagram (attached).

I thought your date corrector looked like it was in the correct position. Just to confirm, the quickset works by pulling and then pushing the crown in and out to advance the date.

DC.jpg.b83fdd29b2dd9601bc1eb8ea5ef6780e.jpg

Bulova_11 AOAC, D, B.pdf

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

he quickset works by pulling and then pushing the crown in and out to advance the date.

Oh really, like my Seiko 6139?

When I pulled out the crown it had 3 positions, so I assumed one position set the day/date. I'll check more closely when I put it back together.

 

Thanks again!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also just realized I had that tech bulletin saved...but in French for some reason 🙂

No, I don't speak French.

2172_Bulova 11AOAC 11AOACD 11AOACB.pdf

While parts are drying I'm on the hunt for a replacement crystal. I can measure the opening and get a generic one, but it'd be nice to find out what the original looked like first.

Of course, case code 3093 does not appear in any of my reference materials.

image.png.0daad1ec327ed9225a5a18381517272a.png

JulesBorel lists a C3093 case code, and shows Bulova part # 1222-5.

image.png.06f4d928dea00bee480d80011c4091c1.png

Does anyone have information on this guy? I found a thread here talking about how the -5 is the height of the crystal, but that's as far as I've gotten.

I also found one site that claims to have it in stock, but before I risk my $20 I'd like to confirm it's the right part.

 

image.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I checked with the fine folks at the McCaw Company, and they agree it's the correct crystal, and they have one in stock, so with that sorted time to get onto assembly.

Starting by getting the spring into the barrel, which was a bit harrowing. It took me several tries to get it hooked onto my worn old winder arbor, but I did find a new use for the micrometer stand I just purchased.

IMG_20240418_115710.thumb.jpg.706b0611710d18f393c9f8ae4586b8a3.jpg

Carefully dabbed some Kluber P125 braking grease to the left of the divots around the barrel, and a little HP1300 on the floor of the barrel before popping it in--in case you haven't seen it, this is a great illustration I found somewhere on this site.

automaticdrumlube.thumb.jpg.8bd4be2a4058ad248eb4ce7507de27ec.jpg

20240418120902992.thumb.jpg.f4d83dd7c8a04e42b9808466540e3130.jpg

You're not the boss of me, Bulova.

20240418121417540.thumb.jpg.ba3e3a02880dd66bf4a20f7fbed7bf46.jpg

 

20240418120902992.jpg

IMG_20240418_115710.jpg

2172_Bulova 11AOAC 11AOACD 11AOACB.pdf Bulova_11 AOAC, D, B(1).pdf

I got the train back in and it didn't seem as free as I'd like. Looks like the driving wheel with cannon pinion has zero end shake.

That could explain the low amplitutde I started with.

Now if you were me, would you push on the plate jewel or the bridge jewel?

I've attached some extra pictures in case anyone sees something else I'm doing wrong here.

IMG_20240418_143906.thumb.jpg.a19fa21a6351aa2ce0e7b9fe1e70a792.jpg20240418144304324.thumb.jpg.a743e85cea0e9221017255d81fd6bdcd.jpg20240418144150894.thumb.jpg.875abc3c5f13798f078fc345f4f247f4.jpg20240418144049462.thumb.jpg.d77a62ec5775263da643afdaf9674f84.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have that French tech sheet too, it is a little different than the English one (eg, it doesn't have the auto works diagram).

BTW, it looks like you are looking up the case number in the 1979 ABC supplement. The 1974 ABC catalog does have the 3093 case. As you determined it takes the 1222-5 crystal.  When I serviced my President 'A' (which also takes that crystal), I was able to fit a 29.8 crystal from my DPA crystal assortment. Those are, in my opinion, a great deal. The assortment comes with 10 sizes each from 27.8mm to 32.4mm in 0.2 increments. I pretty much use them for any non-armored crystal that takes a high dome crystal. I think they no longer make them but Cousins has still has some in stock but when I bought them they were around $40 for the set and now they are around $100. Still, at 40 cents a crystal it's still a good deal.

For the large driving wheel, I remember I once assembled the keyless/motion works first and when I placed the large driving wheel it was interfering with the setting wheel on the dial side as the teeth were not fully meshing and it wouldn't fully seat. If that isn't the issue I got nothing and am looking forward to see how you solve it 🙂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I remember I once assembled the keyless/motion works first and when I placed the large driving wheel it was interfering with the setting wheel on the dial side as the teeth were not fully meshing and it wouldn't fully seat.

Unfortunately I'm not that lucky. I started on the train side and after I noticed the binding I pulled everything out except the driving wheel to rule everything else out. It still binds.

I'm going to double check that the pinion is fully seated on the staff first, then if no joy I'll push the bridge jewel up a fraction of a mm. Fingers crossed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you take the friction pinion off the large driving wheel and grease it? Although, now that I think about it, that shouldn't have any effect on the free running of the train if the friction pinion isn't interacting withe minute wheel/setting wheel...

Edited by GuyMontag
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Did you take the friction pinion off the large driving wheel and grease it?

I did not. I thought about it, but I had cleaned it in my ultrasonic, and the tech sheet shows lubricating it in place already assembled, so I figured discretion was the better part of valor.

Although since I have to depth the jewels anyway, maybe I pull the pinion off to rule it out 100% as part of the problem.

Do you know if there's a safe way to do it? I don't want to use a puller because it would push down on the plane of the wheel, and that seems like a Bad Idea.

I thought about using a roller table remover, but I don't think I have a hole stake pointy enough to push it down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

I did not. I thought about it, but I had cleaned it in my ultrasonic, and the tech sheet shows lubricating it in place already assembled, so I figured discretion was the better part of valor.

Although since I have to depth the jewels anyway, maybe I pull the pinion off to rule it out 100% as part of the problem.

Do you know if there's a safe way to do it? I don't want to use a puller because it would push down on the plane of the wheel, and that seems like a Bad Idea.

I thought about using a roller table remover, but I don't think I have a hole stake pointy enough to push it down.

Yeah, I saw that in the tech sheet but I don't see how it can be adequately cleaned with the friction pinion still in place.

I've accidentally pulled the arbor right out of the wheel once when I used a presto tool to try and remove it. Mark shows how he does it with the Platax tool. Those are a little too pricey for me so I got one of these from Aliexpress and I just push down on the arbor with the end of my brass tweezers. That usually gets it most of the way out and then I just grab the wheel with one hand the and the friction pinion with the other and gently rotate them until it pops off. Probably not the best way but it's seemed to work for me so far.
 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

It was easy enough to pop off. Once I had the cannon pinion hanging on the blades of the stump, I got my #2 tweezers on the gear attached to the staff and levered it down.

That way none of the force was on the brass wheel itself.

IMG_20240420_105901.jpg

 

I reinstalled it and the bridge, and it looks like a small but reasonable amount of end shake. It also spins easily with a blower. It stops quickly, but I think that's due to the large shoulder and about what I'd expect from this wheel.

 

Edited by ManSkirtBrew
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Amplitude still seems low, but I'm going to let it run in a bit and revisit.

Meanwhile, got the first layer of the calendar works together and made sure the date ring snaps to both in quickset and regular setting.

The mechanism is pretty cool, so I took a video.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All right! Back together, cased up, and ready to rock and roll.

Well, after I cased it and forgot the seconds hand. And then after I found a fitting back gasket. And then after I had to take it apart again because I forgot to put the automatic rotor back on.  🙄

I did find a vintage Hadley Roma strap in red leather, as an homage to the original maroon strap. I'm super pleased with how it looks. Can I say chuffed as an American?

I may polish the case at some point, but for now I'm just gonna wear it.

And of course, pictures. First dial up, dial down, and on the wrist. Including the cat tax.

dialup.thumb.png.42dd13f429a74aef0a6d75033f8b136e.png

dialdown.thumb.png.24a7c3d105241a6b77f921e99c2ada9b.png

IMG_20240424_173411.thumb.jpg.f6a22a94219a9a17e9c19682ce49070e.jpg

IMG_20240424_180018.thumb.jpg.d25e2e6eb4172a717fcdd0f648c32470.jpg

IMG_20240424_180029.thumb.jpg.087a744138c8c18a206e08b6a235f84c.jpg

IMG_20240424_180021.thumb.jpg.639c383506a8712611210463dc9a2589.jpg

IMG_20240424_180005.thumb.jpg.a0db2ed56f627adb1a5f4de49c4cd9d7.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • ...and if you haven't found this already, here is the oiling chart: https://miyotamovement.com/product/8215/ --> scroll down to "Parts list/Exploded view" and open the tab.   
    • A worn winding pinion wouldn't release the power, as the click is holding the crown wheel. 
    • The problem with a watch like this is where is the technical information? I wasn't even sure that was even based on anything it looks from the link I have below it is based on a real watch well loosely based so maybe there's technical? https://calibercorner.com/pts-caliber-dg-2813/ There guess the watch company has a tiny bit of technical they acknowledge they made the watch but not seeing any service information? https://miyotamovement.com/product/8215/ I did finally find a service sheet for the watch but as it said in the first link it's not an exact clone so that will be some variations. The problem with the Chinese watches they do not supply any technical information spare parts or anything at all other than a cheap watch Which is fine until you go to service the thing and then they'll be problems. On the other hand there clone of the 6497/6498 pocketwatch is almost identical and that means that there is a Swiss tech sheet available which is very very close unlike here where there'll be some differences Now this is a much better choice for watch as they have a website. I'm attaching the technical information for your watch from the website at least they have a really decent service guide versus the Chinese. https://www.timemodule.com/             8691_276584548-Spare-parts-reference-for-the-Miyota-8205-8215-movement.pdf NH35_PL.pdf NH35_SS.pdf NH35_TG.pdf
    • Guys, thanks for your help! According to the advice of a colleague @nevenbekriev, I managed to straighten the spring. Surprisingly, it turned out completely flat. Like new. And the watch after that, for the first time since it was with me, started running late. 🙂 That's great news!!! The rotation of the weights is about 190/200 degrees. In the past 12 hours, it was 4 minutes late. I still have enough room to speed it up. Looks like everything will be OK.  Thank you very much for your help!
    • Thank you for this post. Adding on to it, I've done a little digging trying to get the most bang for my buck. So I really wanted a set that had a base. You can buy the screwdrivers for around $33 usd 10 Piece Screwdriver Set. The base is around $32 usd Rotating Screwdriver Base (Grey) plus $20 in shipping, with tax you are looking at about $90 which is an excellent deal for what you get but I still didn't want to spend that much. I saw that they had the 9 piece set w/ base for $59 usd 9 Piece Screwdriver Set W/Base and I had a 'welcome discount' and got a matching 3mm screwdriver for 99 cents. 3mm Screwdriver. (without the discount the screwdriver is $6) With free shipping my total was $66.55 usd. So, I saved about $24 to go without a slot for a 3mm screwdriver. I'll take that! I hope this helps anyone looking to save a buck or two. Also, this corrects the issue of the orange 1.8mm screwdriver. 😉
×
×
  • Create New...