Shaped Crystal needed for vintage Citizen watch

[Endeavor]

Hello All;

During a full service / restoration of a vintage 3530 Citizen analog chronograph, the 1.2mm thick shaped mineral crystal shattered on me 

It doesn't look like (to no surprise) that CousinsUK has one. eBay currently (or never) hasn't got one on offer either.

Anybody?

Preferably within the EU, else anything coming from outside the EU gets hit by €22 "handling-fee" as a starter. On top comes 25% VAT.

 

Edited March 21 by Endeavor

[RichardHarris123]

Several companies sell crystals cut to size, cousins sell blanks. 

[Endeavor]

9 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Several companies sell crystals cut to size, cousins sell blanks. 

Yes, I've seen that; 40mm x 40mm in several glass thicknesses. They are cheap too; £1.50

The inner edge of the Citizen measures ≈ 30 x 30 mm, so that seems quite some work, including the "rounded" edges

Have you ever attempted to cut a crystal?

Edited March 21 by Endeavor

[Waggy]

Here is the machine they use to professionally to cut new crystals and how they do it, these machines are probably way to expensive (see below) for the hobbyist who will use it infrequently. The video also explains how to cut a new crystal even if you don't have the original or it is too damaged to act as a template as in your case.

I 

33 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

Have you ever attempted to cut a crystal?

I saw a video by Nekkid watchmaker where he cut one by hand using hand tools (can't find the youtube right now), the results were not great and took him several attempts to get a passible crystal. Perhaps the best solution may be if someone on here knows a friendly shop with such a device that would cut a new one for you, or you could find one locally?

If you win the lottery and feel like buying a machine:

 

 

 

Edited March 21 by Waggy

[JohnR725]

18 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

Have you ever attempted to cut a crystal?

. The good old days when watchmakers could be authorized to be service providers are centers. Citizen was interesting because one time to time care packages would come with all these nifty packages of citizen parts. So that means we would've had all the books but I also have a universal book with a whole bunch of stuff

then as far as cutting crystals goes I also worked in a material house cutting glass crystals so yes it can be done but maybe we could find an original

so in my universal book of a whole bunch a watch companies the way it's explained for citizen numbers is there's a four digit number that we could care less about and then there's the rest of the number that we care about

no idea of the letters are important or not. 54 – 18714 that is the crystal number and minor confusion at least for me in the book is that in this particular section of cases for the crown in the stem well for the crown there's variations as it appears to be three different crowns with two different stems

then the case number reference from the book doesn't translate to the website we needed this number. Unfortunately the number it yields does not translate to the main website as to an item?

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=CIT_CS^37-1017

looks like your little late but we get a picture and it looks like the right crystal so that means no show up again

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134939666624

found another one that hasn't in stock apparently but I bet should be pricey to just order one Crystal.

http://www.stsupply.com/watch-parts/parts-by-brand/citizen-parts/crystals/54-18174h-citizen-crystal.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Waggy]

I found these guys in the UK, I haven't used them, so don't know if they can cut a new crystal without a blank, or what their prices are like, but they have an email address so may be worth asking - would be interested to know:

https://www.crystalfit.co.uk/

 

I also found this web site which gives some basic instructions on hand making a crystal:

https://german242.com/en/rectangular-bale-shape-watch-crystal-cutting/

 

[Endeavor]

13 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

looks like your little late but we get a picture and it looks like the right crystal so that means no show up again

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134939666624

Thanks John

Yes, I'm too late, but it was going to be pricey too;

 

($ 21.99 + $15.64 + $23.50 handling fee)+25%VAT = $76.41 = Welcome to the EUSR

It maybe a matter of a long wait & search or attempting to cut myself ...... If all fails, sell the 3510 movement.

Edited March 21 by Endeavor

[Neverenoughwatches]

 A guy i  worked wih years ago his wife made stained glass lead tarariums . To shape the glass she used a bench glass grinder, which is like a spindle moulder that i use for shaping timber, basically a drum sander fed through a hole in a table.  You could make a miniature version of something similar using a dremel tool, if you could add a water feed that will reduce airborne glass particles, or just keep wetting down with a sprayer. Or work in a pan that holds a little water using a cordless dremmel. 

[Waggy]

47 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

To shape the glass she used a bench glass grinder, which is like a spindle moulder that i use for shaping timber, basically a drum sander fed through a hole in a table.

My wife makes stained glass, always been in the back of my mind to see if her grinding tool could be used for this purpose.... only down side is that it may open the door to her borrowing my tools as a quid pro quo deal 

[RichardHarris123]

Cutting glass is relatively easy, the polished edge is more difficult without the correct tools but I think @Neverenoughwatchesidea would work. 

1 minute ago, Waggy said:

My wife makes stained glass, always been in the back of my mind to see if her grinding tool could be used for this purpose.... only down side is that it may open the door to her borrowing my tools as a quid pro quo deal 

Can you post photos of her polishing tool? 

[Waggy]

Here it is (Kristall 2000S Glass Grinder), was around £200 as I remember:

I assume the S stands for the red 'sports - stripe' on the box 

Thinking that maybe the best way to do it would be to 3D print a dummy plastic crystal, and tweak until it is the perfect shape then superglue this dummy onto the rough cut crystal and then finish the shaping on the grinder - if you start grinding plastic you have gone too far. Once ground to the correct size you could dissolve off the plastic/superglue dummy with acetone leaving you with a pretty good crystal?

[Endeavor]

For giving my Omega Mark II case a new "sunburst", I bought recently a small disk-grinder. The disk diameter is 116mm. Need to find the right size grit paper for it ...

Perhaps I can do something with that?

 

46 minutes ago, Waggy said:

3D print a dummy plastic crystal, and tweak until it is the perfect shape then superglue this dummy onto the rough cut crystal and then finish the shaping on the grinder

The 3-D part is not within my reach, but the rest of the idea is great

May need to order more than 1x blank

 

 

[Waggy]

40 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

Perhaps I can do something with that?

May even be better for getting a straight edge?

[Endeavor]

I've got the plastic Tachymeter-insert out and that one happens to have the same shape and size of the inside of the inner watch-housing / glass shape. That's the best template I've so far and a very nice starting point

Edited March 21 by Endeavor

[RichardHarris123]

Grit wise, like most things, start low and work up though the grits. How is the sandpaper held onto the disc?  

[Endeavor]

32 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

How is the sandpaper held onto the disc?  

It's one of those with hook & loop. Still have to find some with the finer grits.

35 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

start low and work up though the grits

Not sure if it is wise, on glass, to start with coarse. One has to take the generated heat in consideration. Probably easy does it

 

[RichardHarris123]

You could use double sided tape to stick finer grit paper to a velcro pad.

[Endeavor]

7 hours ago, Waggy said:

I saw a video by Nekkid watchmaker where he cut one by hand using hand tools (can't find the youtube right now), the results were not great and took him several attempts to get a passible crystal.

Perhaps this was the video you were referring to?

 

7 hours ago, Waggy said:

https://german242.com/en/rectangular-bale-shape-watch-crystal-cutting/

BTW; in the link you provided they recommend wet sandpaper at all times. Your wife's machine, like mine, doesn't seem suitable for wet sanding. Does she uses water or just dry grinding?

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Can you post photos of her polishing tool?

Now come on Rich behave, you're just opening the door for me here to get myself into trouble, nope sorry i'm not biting

[RichardHarris123]

4 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Now come on Rich behave, you're just opening the door for me here to get myself into trouble, nope sorry i'm not biting

Have you left middle school yet, hehe. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, Endeavor said:

It's one of those with hook & loop. Still have to find some with the finer grits.

Not sure if it is wise, on glass, to start with coarse. One has to take the generated heat in consideration. Probably easy does it

 

Self adhesive diamond lapping film would be a better option. I've altered bevel angles to glass to remove damage using diamond plates and polished the edge with emery paper. Heat does build up with the emery once the abrasive has worn so the paper has to be kept moving. The grit needs to be relatively high to start with anything below 800ish  causes micro chips on the glass edge, grind from the front face to the inside just in case, the odd internal chip will be less visible. 

11 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Have you left middle school yet, hehe. 

When it comes to innuendo and double entendre i will forever be extremely childish.

[Endeavor]

Digging a bit deeper, there is, not surprisingly, a whole "glass grinding" world out there.

[CYCLOPS]

maybe find a cutting wheel old optometrists used, a lot of fine stone wheels will cut mineral glass, I use to use a machine at work that was used for sharpening blades and scissors when I wasn't at home to do it.....old timers would sometimes put a wet sponge on the bottom of machines to keep dust down and smoother cuts....