part list for specific calibers - Rolex

[Qutadah]

Hello everyone,

 

So actually I'm extremely new to watch repair and this forum. I have a question.

 

Is there a PDF where all parts/ part no/ properties are listed for a specific caliber say from Rolex?

 

I have seen one for Omega caliber 260, but I am not sure if that's the case for other watchmakers.

The reason for this would be to know what parts I would expect to need even if I never had any experience with that caliber.

 

For example: How do I know if the hairspring or the mainspring has a replacement somewhere, even if it's not the original manufacturer but something that might just make it work if you had a part that needs to be replaced?

 

I'm not sure if that's possible, however, I'd like to know what I am dealing with when I get a watch to fix.

 

Thanks!

 

Best,

Qutadah

[Klassiker]

Hello Qutadah,

I'll try to keep this short, but it's a big subject with a lot of possible answers. As always, it depends.

For some calibres, especially older ones which are no longer in production, you can get parts lists and even service instructions. A good source is the Cousins UK website, or the kind people on this forum. That doesn't guarantee that you can still buy the spare part, however. Some parts are interchangeable between calibres. For this information you need the Best Fit catalogues, also available here from time to time.

None of this applies to Rolex, who are extremely restrictive with information and spare parts. This practice is common amongst the big brands, and it makes spares hard to come by and very expensive.

With mainsprings, it's usually possible to find a generic part from a manufacturer like Générale Ressorts which will work fine. With hairsprings that doesn't work. You need to find the complete balance assembly.

Edited March 6 by Klassiker
Typos

[JohnR725]

10 hours ago, Qutadah said:

specific caliber say from Rolex?

I don't suppose you have a caliber number we can work with?

10 hours ago, Qutadah said:

For example: How do I know if the hairspring or the mainspring has a replacement somewhere, even if it's not the original manufacturer but something that might just make it work if you had a part that needs to be replaced?

first off hairsprings  a commonly needed component when learning watch repair with an unfortunate reality. Typically 99.9% of the time the hairspring on the balance wheel was  specifically manufactured or vibrated  to that balance wheel.. So if you lose or break the hairspring which is quite common for newbies and sometimes all the rest of us it's a balance complete.

now there are of course exceptions to all of this like over coil type hairsprings  are usually manufactured to very specific specifications  then the balance wheel is matched to them. This means that  often times they were available for separate purchasing and you would've also had a screw assortment timing screws to match your balance wheel to your new hairspring.. On rare occasions I have seen flat hairspring is available at least listed in the parts list, whether or not they ever were available  occasionally but the most part they're not.. So we all try extremely hard not to destroy our hairsprings..

here's a place that I like the look for a cross reference to spare parts.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/

oh then there's the other miscellaneous problems.. Technical literature when it was scanned into PDF's it was specifically done for parts listings.  So this man's often times there might have actually been technical information but so many times all you'll find is the parts list. A common thought of newbies is that you'll have a nice service  bulletin for manual for every single watch made and that doesn't exist. Then even if they did exist they probably weren't scanned just the parts list if were lucky.

Rolex as with some other companies  becomes challenging because  they don't like to share their information. I talked to somebody who ran a service center and when they got their new literature in the days of paper they were required to send back the old documentation. So if they had an update for something the old went away.. Which is why you don't find a lot of Rolex literature out there it is out there but all that was supposed to go back to Rolex.. Then today Rolex Swatch group and others it's all on line just not for us. then even if you're lucky enough to somehow get access  like in the case of Swatch group it came at various levels so if you are not at the right level you would not even be allowed to see the technical documentation.. then even if you were at the right level they usually don't keep the vintage stuff that will disappear with time as that was supposed to go back the factory and not being serviced by you. Often times if there PDFs they watermark every single one with who downloaded it  because I really do not want their technical out in the hands of well basically us.

40 minutes ago, Klassiker said:

Cousins UK website

for instance here's what happens if you search for Rolex  notice  no service information just parts lists that are vintage

https://www.cousinsuk.com/document/search?SearchString=Rolex

then if you want to spend some money you can join an Association and they have technical information.

https://www.awci.com/member-center/technical-guides-references/

 

 

 

[Qutadah]

8 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I don't suppose you have a caliber number we can work with?

I'm looking for Caliber 4211 specifically at this point.

 

9 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Hello Qutadah,

I'll try to keep this short, but it's a big subject with a lot of possible answers. As always, it depends.

For some calibres, especially older ones which are no longer in production, you can get parts lists and even service instructions. A good source is the Cousins UK website, or the kind people on this forum. That doesn't guarantee that you can still buy the spare part, however. Some parts are interchangeable between calibres. For this information you need the Best Fit catalogues, also available here from time to time.

None of this applies to Rolex, who are extremely restrictive with information and spare parts. This practice is common amongst the big brands, and it makes spares hard to come by and very expensive.

With mainsprings, it's usually possible to find a generic part from a manufacturer like Générale Ressorts which will work fine. With hairsprings that doesn't work. You need to find the complete balance assembly.

Yes! These big brands make it hard for us! I will have a look at the Cousins UK website! The caliber I'm looking for is caliber 4211 from Rolex, which has a defective hairspring, and I could find a balance online from the same movement, I'll have to test and see if it's ok, The guy didn't tell me details, he says it looks fine, however, in reality, it might be not! So it's a gamble....

 

Thanks! Appreciate your comment!

[Klassiker]

The caliber number is what you might call the type i.d. for the movement. The number you gave appears to be the model i.d. of a ladies' watch. Is that right? Time for some pictures. Do you feel confident about taking the back off?

[Qutadah]

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I don't suppose you have a caliber number we can work with?

The caliber I am looking at is Caliber 4211, a Rolex lady's movement.

Thank you for the informative comment! Yes, I have found these companies are like what you described regarding their parts, I even called Rolex and asked if I could buy the part from them, but they wouldn't even accept that. They said all servicing shall be done in Rolex... Which is annoying.

Quote

screw assortment timing screws to match your balance wheel to your new hairspring.

I'm very new to watchmaking, and all hairsprings that I have seen are overcoil type, what do you mean by a flat hairspring?

Quote

then if you want to spend some money you can join an Association and they have technical information.

https://www.awci.com/member-center/technical-guides-references/

Oh, and btw I contacted AWCI and they offered me 1-year free membership since I'm a student at FSU! Hooray!

[Jon]

20 hours ago, Qutadah said:

So actually I'm extremely new to watch repair and this forum. I have a question.

I like your enthusiasm to be able to repair and service watches, although working on quite small movements such a Omega 260 and Rolex 4211 isn't where I would start. These are very small and old movements, which probably have a lot of issues and need more than just servicing to bring them to their optimum working values. I don't want to discourage you, in fact quite the opposite, but if you want to learn the basics in watch movements and servicing them I would start on something that works flawlessly and is big, such as an ST36, which you can pick up from Cousins or AliExpress for not a lot of money. If you need spare parts, just let me know, as I have loads and will be happy to give you what you need when they spring off into another dimension. I use these movements for my first year lessons/classes, for the reasons I have mentioned.

As @Klassikerhas already mentioned service manuals for Rolex are very restricted and usually you may just get a parts list for older movements, which might not be as helpful as you wish.

Hairsprings will always come with a balance and be known as 'balance complete' as the hairspring has to be vibrated to the correct BPH for the balance wheel, although a replacement hairspring can be 'vibrated' to the correct speed to suit the balance, but that isn't something you'd be doing as someone new to this.

What I would suggest is start with the basics in learning how to service a watch that is perfectly running to start with, then learn about fault finding and alleviating those faults before starting on vintage watches that are full of problems and faults, as your frustrations may lead you to believing you are not any good at this, which is quite natural.

Mark Lovic, our founder, does a very good course that you can buy https://www.watchfix.com/

I also hold beginners courses in London, but also online real-time online courses athttps://www.jonthewatch.co.uk/evening-watchmaking-courses

Edited March 6 by Jon

[Knebo]

Hello @Qutadah and welcome to the forum.

For simple parts lists, I usually find this page to be the most comprehensive:

https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/files

You can then choose the manufacturer, such as Rolex (https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/files?subdir=Rolex&dir=Technical Manuals&action=documents).

The guy also keeps an amazing list of mainspring sizes:

https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/mainsprings

For MANUALS/service guides, everything gets much trickier.

Good luck.

 

[JohnR725]

17 hours ago, Qutadah said:

Caliber 4211, a Rolex lady's movement.

as others have said that's not the actual movement number that's more of a style or design number. this is where it's always nice to give us a picture to avoid confusions. I searched online I keep coming up with the same thing. Yes it's a ladies watch but definitely not a newbie's watch not at all.

it's interesting kinda like Omega is it's more of a styled number and seems to have variations. Just like Omega will have a case number but it could be gold or stainless all sorts of things it's not an exact thing

as you can see from the above picture it is a ladies Rolex watch. I've seen several pictures the movement they all look the same and this appears to be the movement. Unfortunately no one is disclosing which movement this is other than it's vintage.

the good news is the bestfit book seems to have smaller size ladies Rolex watches listed will just need the size to see if we do figure out the movement. Being a vintage ladies parts will be extremely problematic if this is what you have.

 

 

[Qutadah]

On 3/6/2024 at 11:29 AM, Klassiker said:

The caliber number is what you might call the type i.d. for the movement. The number you gave appears to be the model i.d. of a ladies' watch. Is that right? Time for some pictures. Do you feel confident about taking the back off?

I don't have the watch with me, I have been thinking of buying it, but since the guy said it might have a hairspring problem, I was not keen on buying it till I found more information, hence my question here. I don't want to buy it and then discover that I cannot repair it by any chance.... It's a gamble at this point hearing what you said. Even if I found another same caliber, it's very tough to know if the hairspring is good, since most of those sold for repair or spare parts are usually not running.

 

This is the watch I have been watching, the guy said its a hairspring, and I'm not able to find any user guide for this caliber even on cousins UK website...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254812617215

@Knebo

Thanks! I appreciate it, I will look at all these links!

On 3/6/2024 at 12:08 PM, Jon said:

I like your enthusiasm to be able to repair and service watches, although working on quite small movements such a Omega 260 and Rolex 4211 isn't where I would start. These are very small and old movements, which probably have a lot of issues and need more than just servicing to bring them to their optimum working values. I don't want to discourage you, in fact quite the opposite, but if you want to learn the basics in watch movements and servicing them I would start on something that works flawlessly and is big, such as an ST36, which you can pick up from Cousins or AliExpress for not a lot of money. If you need spare parts, just let me know, as I have loads and will be happy to give you what you need when they spring off into another dimension. I use these movements for my first year lessons/classes, for the reasons I have mentioned.

As @Klassikerhas already mentioned service manuals for Rolex are very restricted and usually you may just get a parts list for older movements, which might not be as helpful as you wish.

Hairsprings will always come with a balance and be known as 'balance complete' as the hairspring has to be vibrated to the correct BPH for the balance wheel, although a replacement hairspring can be 'vibrated' to the correct speed to suit the balance, but that isn't something you'd be doing as someone new to this.

What I would suggest is start with the basics in learning how to service a watch that is perfectly running to start with, then learn about fault finding and alleviating those faults before starting on vintage watches that are full of problems and faults, as your frustrations may lead you to believing you are not any good at this, which is quite natural.

Mark Lovic, our founder, does a very good course that you can buy https://www.watchfix.com/

I also hold beginners courses in London, but also online real-time online courses athttps://www.jonthewatch.co.uk/evening-watchmaking-courses

 

I do have the ST36 ordered and that is where I will start. I was just considering the ladies' watch for the future after I have some good hands-on on with the normal easy comparatively bigger movements. I am worried about hairsprings because I am a mechanical engineer and I do understand these tolerances in manufacturing the balances are always there and 2 balances will never be the same, therefore the hairsprings need to be adjusted for that balance. 100%. What does the process of adjusting the balance include?

12 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

as others have said that's not the actual movement number that's more of a style or design number. this is where it's always nice to give us a picture to avoid confusions. I searched online I keep coming up with the same thing. Yes it's a ladies watch but definitely not a newbie's watch not at all.

it's interesting kinda like Omega is it's more of a styled number and seems to have variations. Just like Omega will have a case number but it could be gold or stainless all sorts of things it's not an exact thing

as you can see from the above picture it is a ladies Rolex watch. I've seen several pictures the movement they all look the same and this appears to be the movement. Unfortunately no one is disclosing which movement this is other than it's vintage.

the good news is the bestfit book seems to have smaller size ladies Rolex watches listed will just need the size to see if we do figure out the movement. Being a vintage ladies parts will be extremely problematic if this is what you have.

 

 

ok, so i thought thats the caliber number... Good to know, ok so that will require some digging.. What do you think about this movement? Would it be hard to work with from your personal experience?

Edited March 7 by Qutadah

[Klassiker]

The ebay listing has ended. Did you buy it?

[JohnR725]

10 hours ago, Qutadah said:

What do you think about this movement? Would it be hard to work with from your personal experience?

the problem with the movement is parts which probably don't exist anymore but identifying the movement will be an interesting challenge. Basically going to have to take the dial off so we can try to identify it.

Then it's a ladies movement I don't like tiny watches anymore. I like to work on pocket watches are nice and big not that they don't have their own peculiar challenges of 100 years of people doing interesting things that results in issues lots of issues. But their people that love the work on ladies watches I don't see anything complicated other than it's a ladies watch possibly with zero spare parts available.

Then yes I did try to track down a movement number conveniently everyone describes it as the name on the dial or cocktail watch was one description conveniently nobody has a number and yes there's probably a reason for that a lot of the early Rolex watches didn't have numbers they had letters. Plus you go to any website that talks about the history of Rolex conveniently they skip over that they even made a ladies watch.

 

[Knebo]

Hi @Qutadah and all,

I can guarantee you that you will struggle a lot to get spare parts for a movement like this. You might have to buy a complete donor movement and they will be extremely expensive. Maybe it will be impossible to find at all.

Hairsprings from back then are also much "softer" and susceptible to bending, damage and breaking (if bent back-and-forth too many times). Hairspring work is difficult in general, but much harder on these old ones. Practicing on a ST36  is not fully preparing you for that.

Lastly, these old movement are not perfectly standardized -- much more one-by-one work was done by watchmakers back then. Specifically, you may find that the hairspring length between yours and the potential donor/replacement hairspring are a bit different. To compensate, the watchmakers may have used the timing screws or timing washers to ensure that the watch keeps time within the margin of the regulator arm. 

I talk from experience with an Omega T17 from the 1930s, where a replacement hairspring was a a few millimeters shorter than the original one. Consequently, the watch runs over 10min fast even with the regulator arm all the way back to maximum "slow". I'm now waiting for timing washers to correct that. 

In sum, if you know that the watch has a hairspring issue, I'd suggest you stay away from it.

 

[JohnR725]

46 minutes ago, Knebo said:

these old movement are not perfectly standardized -- much more one-by-one work was done by watchmakers back then. Specifically, you may find that the hairspring length between yours and the potential donor/replacement hairspring are a bit different. To compensate, the watchmakers may have used the timing screws or timing washers to ensure that the watch keeps time within the margin of the regulator arm.

standardization is not quite the right term here. Basically manufacturing tolerances it's only in relatively recent times can hair Springs and balance wheels be manufactured precisely enough that they can be put together with out the process of matching which is called vibrating.

This is why traditionally you typically never find hairsprings available separately. The exception is hairsprings that are premade typically not flat to very exacting specifications then the balance wheel would've been matched the hairspring. Timing screws would've been available to achieve that. On some rare occasions I have seen flat hairsprings available but typically they were vibrated to the balance wheel.

now this doesn't mean that hairsprings art available like there's a website hairsprings so they don't have a stud much problem but could that be? Then for hairspring vibrating do a search we've talked about it before and the group.

https://www.ofrei.com/page820.html

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

you might have to buy a complete donor movement and they will be extremely expensive.

this does bring up an interesting problem though? Typically when were looking for watch parts we need to know which calibrate is but maybe we really don't need to know that? For instance here's a link on eBay what are we searching for movements in this case Rolex movements. There's a problem we don't have a caliber number on the other hand the sellers don't have a caliber number either because they have the same problem we do unless they take the dial off they don't know what they're selling other than it's Rolex.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2499334.m570.l1313&_nkw=Rolex&_sacat=57720

so this one looks promising I do like the descriptions and sellers use for their watches. Probably should downgrade any of the positive wording they use because well they're trying to sell the watch.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296128856768

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

extremely expensive

we may have to come up with the definition of extremely expensive when looking at the various eBay listings like the above indicated that well it has potential and this one is slightly cheaper indicates less potential

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225375118109

finally? You'll have to go through all the rest of them I found what I was looking for its cheap but that's not what I was looking for

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285748960785

looks right few parts fell off how hard would that be to put them back?

yes for the people read the fine print it's past my bedtime. When you get a weird sense a humor and we get a partial answer I wish the picture was a little better the was the setting parts were back where there supposed to be as we could possibly identify the movement from that but there is the other problem?

description only gives us one thing which is this Movement is 12mm x 21.5mm that was something I was looking for will have to translate to something I'll attach a PDF for that watches are not usually specified in millimeters sizes their specified another way is with the PDF is for. Looks like it's a 5.5 x 9.5. Then a course the caliber information is printed on the back kind of sort of and has to be translated

because of time not going to explain in detail bestfit book looks like it could be a 180? Page 126 if you're in a vintage you really should find a PDF of a bestfit book ask someone on the group will probably tell you where to get one for free. I typically won't tell you where to get it for free because I paid for my.

then because I'm being somewhat helpful I snipped out more than just the one Rolex. If you have the physical book the pages are actual sizes otherwise the PDFs are not actual sizes but you can still looked at the setting parts and see if they match.

it looks like we have a match oh but notice the balance completes two different types a hairsprings I classic problem of variations.

then second page look hairsprings were available even flat ones.

then providing I guessed correctly we get a parts listing

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=ROL_180

then we get this I bet it's not available which is sad it has a cheap price

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=[__DycotUPU

then yes we all saw this one coming but it was available

http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.81835/.f

notice we have a trend

http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.79752/.f

so it really is past my bedtime yes you can get movements who knows what condition there in perhaps if you buy enough of them you might build get enough to build a complete watch. On the other hand a lot of the movements are here because somebody scrapped the gold not because the watch was necessarily bad because typically women's movements have no value at all at least up until gold became more valuable.

watch-ligne-size-chart.pdf

[Qutadah]

7 hours ago, Knebo said:

Hi @Qutadah and all,

I can guarantee you that you will struggle a lot to get spare parts for a movement like this. You might have to buy a complete donor movement and they will be extremely expensive. Maybe it will be impossible to find at all.

Hairsprings from back then are also much "softer" and susceptible to bending, damage and breaking (if bent back-and-forth too many times). Hairspring work is difficult in general, but much harder on these old ones. Practicing on a ST36  is not fully preparing you for that.

Lastly, these old movement are not perfectly standardized -- much more one-by-one work was done by watchmakers back then. Specifically, you may find that the hairspring length between yours and the potential donor/replacement hairspring are a bit different. To compensate, the watchmakers may have used the timing screws or timing washers to ensure that the watch keeps time within the margin of the regulator arm. 

I talk from experience with an Omega T17 from the 1930s, where a replacement hairspring was a a few millimeters shorter than the original one. Consequently, the watch runs over 10min fast even with the regulator arm all the way back to maximum "slow". I'm now waiting for timing washers to correct that. 

In sum, if you know that the watch has a hairspring issue, I'd suggest you stay away from it.

 

I did find a replacement donor, however, everything you talked about is very true. This is why I posted this to understand if I'm being reasonable with my thoughts.

 

What are these timing washers? I never heard of them

[nevenbekriev]

@Qutadah, see, You first need to have the watch in You hands, or at least to have good pictures of the movement. What the seller says is useless, as if He understands enough of watchmaking, He would repair the watch. We need to see this hairspring, as it may be really bad, but it may be quite easily repairable too. And it concerns not only the hairspring, but all the other parts...

The main problem that I see is that You intend to repair this small and fragile calibre without having any experience. Such attempts usually end up with ruined hairspring and/or broken pivots. Actually, the hairsprings end up ruined never by themselves, but only because someone did'nt handle them properly.

[Nucejoe]

7 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

@Qutadah, see, You first need to have the watch in You hands, or at least to have good pictures of the movement. What the seller says is useless, as if He understands enough of watchmaking, He would repair the watch. We need to see this hairspring, as it may be really bad, but it may be quite easily repairable too. And it concerns not only the hairspring, but all the other parts...

The main problem that I see is that You intend to repair this small and fragile calibre without having any experience. Such attempts usually end up with ruined hairspring and/or broken pivots. Actually, the hairsprings end up ruined never by themselves, but only because someone did'nt handle them properly.

[Qutadah]

7 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

@Qutadah, see, You first need to have the watch in You hands, or at least to have good pictures of the movement. What the seller says is useless, as if He understands enough of watchmaking, He would repair the watch. We need to see this hairspring, as it may be really bad, but it may be quite easily repairable too. And it concerns not only the hairspring, but all the other parts...

The main problem that I see is that You intend to repair this small and fragile calibre without having any experience. Such attempts usually end up with ruined hairspring and/or broken pivots. Actually, the hairsprings end up ruined never by themselves, but only because someone did'nt handle them properly.

you are 100% right, the problem is, usually these sellers who have no experience cannot disassemble the watch and wont send you full pictures of each part, usually just the movement, so it makes it a gamble.

What do you guys usually do to reduce the risk in such cases?

 

[Qutadah]

On 3/8/2024 at 7:15 AM, JohnR725 said:

standardization is not quite the right term here. Basically manufacturing tolerances it's only in relatively recent times can hair Springs and balance wheels be manufactured precisely enough that they can be put together with out the process of matching which is called vibrating.

Yes i agree that is why I said tolerances. 100%

 

On 3/8/2024 at 7:15 AM, JohnR725 said:

then because I'm being somewhat helpful I snipped out more than just the one Rolex. If you have the physical book the pages are actual sizes otherwise the PDFs are not actual sizes but you can still looked at the setting parts and see if they match.

is this from the bestfit book? How much is it and where would i get the physical book?

 

On 3/8/2024 at 7:15 AM, JohnR725 said:

where did you get this from?

On 3/8/2024 at 7:15 AM, JohnR725 said:

then providing I guessed correctly we get a parts listing

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=ROL_180

then we get this I bet it's not available which is sad it has a cheap price

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=[__DycotUPU

then yes we all saw this one coming but it was available

http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.81835/.f

notice we have a trend

http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.79752/.f

that was a good list to look at, I will pin this website! This looks promising, I have a lot of reading to do to understand everything you said regarding the sizes. I am grateful for your comment! Thanks a lot! At one point, however, if you end up buying a set of watches to repair one watch, it gets extremely expensive...

[Knebo]

On 3/8/2024 at 1:15 PM, JohnR725 said:

standardization is not quite the right term here. Basically manufacturing tolerances it's only in relatively recent times can hair Springs and balance wheels be manufactured precisely enough that they can be put together with out the process of matching which is called vibrating.

Yes indeed. That's what I mean but wasn't able to express in the correct working. Thanks.

 

On 3/8/2024 at 1:15 PM, JohnR725 said:

On 3/8/2024 at 11:07 AM, Knebo said:

extremely expensive

we may have to come up with the definition of extremely expensive when looking at the various eBay listings like the above indicated that well it has potential and this one is slightly cheaper indicates less potential

I'm really surprised to see that at this price. Not extremely expensive, I agree. My experience was always that Rolex parts/movements are several times more expensive than Omega parts/movements -- looking at 1950s-1990s era. I was recently looking for a 1930s Omega T17 movement and it goes for around 200-300. I assumed that a Rolex from the same era would then costs over 1000. But I'm proven wrong. 

 

On 3/8/2024 at 1:15 PM, JohnR725 said:

then because I'm being somewhat helpful I snipped out more than just the one Rolex. If you have the physical book the pages are actual sizes otherwise the PDFs are not actual sizes but you can still looked at the setting parts and see if they match.

it looks like we have a match oh but notice the balance completes two different types a hairsprings I classic problem of variations.

then second page look hairsprings were available even flat ones.

then providing I guessed correctly we get a parts listing

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=ROL_180

then we get this I bet it's not available which is sad it has a cheap price

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=[__DycotUPU

then yes we all saw this one coming but it was available

http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.81835/.f

notice we have a trend

http://www.julesborel.com/s.nl/it.A/id.79752/.f

so it really is past my bedtime yes you can get movements who knows what condition there in perhaps if you buy enough of them you might build get enough to build a complete watch. On the other hand a lot of the movements are here because somebody scrapped the gold not because the watch was necessarily bad because typically women's movements have no value at all at least up until gold became more valuable.

Always amazing to see your access to literature and the effort you make to identify obscure things with them! Cudos to you!

 

On 3/8/2024 at 9:38 PM, nevenbekriev said:

@Qutadah, see, You first need to have the watch in You hands, or at least to have good pictures of the movement. What the seller says is useless, as if He understands enough of watchmaking, He would repair the watch. We need to see this hairspring, as it may be really bad, but it may be quite easily repairable too. And it concerns not only the hairspring, but all the other parts...

The main problem that I see is that You intend to repair this small and fragile calibre without having any experience. Such attempts usually end up with ruined hairspring and/or broken pivots. Actually, the hairsprings end up ruined never by themselves, but only because someone did'nt handle them properly.

100%

 

On 3/9/2024 at 5:22 AM, Qutadah said:

you are 100% right, the problem is, usually these sellers who have no experience cannot disassemble the watch and wont send you full pictures of each part, usually just the movement, so it makes it a gamble.

@Qutadah, your enthusiasm is admirable and a great start to this hobby. However, did we understand correctly that you, like the seller, ALSO don't (yet) have much experience in watchmaking -- particularly with very old movements (i.e. without shock spring settings)? Working on watches without shock protected balances implies that you need to handle hairsprings (remove if from the balance cock, and attaching it again, making sure the hairspring goes back between the regulator pins, etc), The hairspring material is also a lot softer and much more prone to bending and breaking. A LOT can go wrong for a beginner. I can tell you from (unfortunate) experience that this results in a 50% hairspring destruction rate when you are doing it the first 2-3 times. After that, it gets better.

I guess the seller may be reluctant to take things apart because he will likely cause damage. That's reasonable.

 

On 3/9/2024 at 5:22 AM, Qutadah said:

What do you guys usually do to reduce the risk in such cases?

The risk in this case is defined by two factors:

1. the uncertainty of the damage 

2. the skills you have to fix damage

If you can't get better pictures, you'll have to accept the uncertainty (point 1). Then only increasing your skills/experience (point 2) can reduce the risks. And your experience should include movements from the early 1900's -- and particularly in the area of the balance/hairspring.

I can "feel" that you really want to get this watch and try your luck. I'd say: better stay away. But if you really want to do it, plan on some prior practicing on very old movements and budget for buying one or probably two Rolex donor movements... 

Best of luck!