Buying/building Watchmakers Lathe

[natanaelfh]

I have an ambition of making my own watch sometime. But to do so I would require a lathe, and I don't have that.

My overall budget is around $1000-1500. Is that reasonable? Or am I way off?

I've tried looking at Ebay for lathes and they are around $500-700. That is OK, however I don't think I would know if the lathe was good before buying, and fixing it would not be easy as I don't have my own workshop.

The other thing I have been considering is trying to make a simple lathe using mostly purchased parts.

This is the basic idea. I understand that deviates a lot from the traditional design of lathes (and there probably is a good reason for why they are made the way that they are) but I'm hoping it can be made precise enough by using some time adjusting it. I can probably borrow some dial indicators and other stuff from work, so verifying that it has a low run out etc. could be done.

With this design it shouldn't cost more than $200-300 and importantly it would be all new parts, so I could be certain that they work as expected (maybe the design is fundamentally flawed, but the parts should not be)

Bought parts:

• Pillow Block Bearing
• Spindle stock (modified from a 25mm rod)
• Rails and carriages

Parts made from scrap:

• Base plate (flattened using a mill)
• Block to raise the bearing

Questions:

• Is $1000-1500 enough to make a watch? What would be reasonable.
• How easy is to buy from ebay, what should I look for/ask the seller to provide?
• Would making one be too hard without full access to a machine workshop?
• Is the proposed design ok? Any obvious points where inaccuracies would occur?

 

Thank you for any help and guidance.

[CYCLOPS]

I think you should purchase a used Levin, Moseley, Webster or any other watchmaker lathe, you will find the other attachments for those lathes more easily and be ready to do the things you want, you will spend too much time making a lathe and attachments, I have seen several on places like eBay and auctions in you price range....

[tomh207]

To add to CYCLOPS comments. You would be much better off buying a watchmaker lathe, even if abused a little it will be much more accurate than the build you propose, new parts or not.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 1/5/2024 at 11:38 PM, natanaelfh said:

I have an ambition of making my own watch sometime. But to do so I would require a lathe, and I don't have that.

My overall budget is around $1000-1500. Is that reasonable? Or am I way off?

I've tried looking at Ebay for lathes and they are around $500-700. That is OK, however I don't think I would know if the lathe was good before buying, and fixing it would not be easy as I don't have my own workshop.

The other thing I have been considering is trying to make a simple lathe using mostly purchased parts.

This is the basic idea. I understand that deviates a lot from the traditional design of lathes (and there probably is a good reason for why they are made the way that they are) but I'm hoping it can be made precise enough by using some time adjusting it. I can probably borrow some dial indicators and other stuff from work, so verifying that it has a low run out etc. could be done.

With this design it shouldn't cost more than $200-300 and importantly it would be all new parts, so I could be certain that they work as expected (maybe the design is fundamentally flawed, but the parts should not be)

Bought parts:

• Pillow Block Bearing
• Spindle stock (modified from a 25mm rod)
• Rails and carriages

Parts made from scrap:

• Base plate (flattened using a mill)
• Block to raise the bearing

Questions:

• Is $1000-1500 enough to make a watch? What would be reasonable.
• How easy is to buy from ebay, what should I look for/ask the seller to provide?
• Would making one be too hard without full access to a machine workshop?
• Is the proposed design ok? Any obvious points where inaccuracies would occur?

 

Thank you for any help and guidance.

Expand  

I honestly think you would be better buying one. How much of the watch do you intend to make ?

[oldhippy]

I don't want to burst your bubble but to make your own watch you are going to need a lot more then just a lathe. You will need a wheel cutter to start and they are not cheap. The lathe will have to be a high end  precision which I hope you won't take offence unless you have worked of high end precision you will find it impossible to make your own.  

[Kalanag]

Think about the high precision collets you need for your lathe! They are not cheap! A hundredth of a millimeter does matter in watchmaking.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155048394427

Edited January 9, 2024 by Kalanag

[Sirius]

First of all, please specify „build my own Watch“ in Detail…

Are you really considering to build your own Movement or do you want to use an existing one like ETA2824/Seagull ST2130 ???
What about the Dial and the Hands ? Do your own or buy existing Parts ?
What about the Case and Glass/Crystal ? 
Build or buy ?
 

believe me, the Lathe is your smallest Problem in this Story. I use my Mill more than my Lathe ( ok. Modelcrafting Live-Steam Lokomotive) and consider also that usually the Tools cost about the same as the Lathe or Mill…..

 

 

lets hear the Details of your Plan….

regards

Ernst

[natanaelfh]

Thanks for all the replies. If I didnt want feedback I woudnt have posted anything, and often the harsh feedback is the most useful.

I guess the prevailing advice is to just buy a lathe. I agree.

As for my plan, I was planing on making everything except the mainspring and hairspring. But I have not looked into it in detail so maybe I would have to buy more components. I would want to make as much of the movement myself. I wouldnt mind omitting the minute and second hands to make it as simple as possible. And maybe using some other method to wind the mainspring or set the time to remove the need for a crown.

I will try to research the minimum amount of tools I would need. As I said I have access to a CNC mill, however not all the time so I would try to use it as little as possible.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 1/9/2024 at 6:49 PM, natanaelfh said:

Thanks for all the replies. If I didnt want feedback I woudnt have posted anything, and often the harsh feedback is the most useful.

I guess the prevailing advice is to just buy a lathe. I agree.

As for my plan, I was planing on making everything except the mainspring and hairspring. But I have not looked into it in detail so maybe I would have to buy more components. I would want to make as much of the movement myself. I wouldnt mind omitting the minute and second hands to make it as simple as possible. And maybe using some other method to wind the mainspring or set the time to remove the need for a crown.

I will try to research the minimum amount of tools I would need. As I said I have access to a CNC mill, however not all the time so I would try to use it as little as possible.

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Nat you didn't tell us what your background in engineering is. 

[nevenbekriev]

Hi Nath,

My answer will differ from the others. As one who has built several lathes (not complicatet ones, but well working), I think i have this right.

Making own lathe is possible, at least I did my first one when I was 15 years old. Watchmaking was different before 150 years, one aprentice would never be proclamed 'watchmaker' untill he built by himself several different size and style clock and watch movements. And, learning the craft always started by lesons for filing, cutting, heat treatment, building simple tools, then more complicated ones... At that time the watch parts were not interchangeable at all and even repairing watches ment making parts when needed to replace.

Yes, buying lathe is easier and faster, but making one will make You eyes and mind much more open and You will obtain skills that others will only dream for. There is a Bulgarian fairy tail with wisdom inside that says about the Fox - She was hungry and tried to reach the grapes in a vineyard, but the grapes were too high for her to reach, so the Fox said they are too sour for her and went away...

Now, for making own movement... I will quote a Bulgarian Writer, one of his heroes said: ‘One is to WANT, another is to CAN, and 3th and 4th is to DO IT’. I will continue this thought with my own experience. When one is young, he WANTS, but he CAN'T. Then, when growing older, he gradually gathers experience and abilities, but when he is already experienced and able enough and he has proved that he CAN, he would probably has forgotten what he WANTed when he was young...

See, making movement is different if one will copy existing movement, or even only the escapement, than if he will design everything by himself. Designing will need many knowledge and experience...

Now, for the lathe design:

You will need one more bearing for the spindle. One on front, and one on the back. Single bearing, even if it is with two rows of balls, will not support the spindle stable enough.

What are this rails? What is planned to move on them? What is this thing on the front rail? Is it rail bearing?

Unless I will know the answers, I will be not able to say if it will work well or not.

[nickelsilver]

You will need a copy of George Daniels' Watchmaking. It shows all the steps to make all the parts, including jewels. And his designs are key-wound, so no need for a crown.

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 1/10/2024 at 6:23 AM, nevenbekriev said:

There is a Bulgarian fairy tail with wisdom inside that says about the Fox - She was hungry and tried to reach the grapes in a vineyard, but the grapes were too high for her to reach, so the Fox said they are too sour for her and went away...

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We all find excuses not to do something because the effort is too much. For some of us the world has become an easy place, but without the hardship we dont grow. I like the fairytale Nev

  On 1/10/2024 at 9:16 AM, nickelsilver said:

You will need a copy of George Daniels' Watchmaking. It shows all the steps to make all the parts, including jewels. And his designs are key-wound, so no need for a crown.

Expand  

Fascinating book but expensive,  I've just started reading it in my local reference library. I think this was his workshop.

[tomh207]

@natanaelfh

i have similar ideas about doing things with movements. I am looking at the idea of making custom bridges first then maybe rotors and decorating them. There are quite a few quality Swiss brands that seem to do this and call them their own.

another interesting avenue to look at which would go a lot further is the openmovement initiative, this is mainly a group of Swiss independent watchmakers designing a movement that you can buy parts for or make yourself with no royalties, licenses etc.

 

https://openmovement.org
 

Tom

[nickelsilver]

  On 1/10/2024 at 6:36 PM, tomh207 said:

@natanaelfh

i have similar ideas about doing things with movements. I am looking at the idea of making custom bridges first then maybe rotors and decorating them. There are quite a few quality Swiss brands that seem to do this and call them their own.

another interesting avenue to look at which would go a lot further is the openmovement initiative, this is mainly a group of Swiss independent watchmakers designing a movement that you can buy parts for or make yourself with no royalties, licenses etc.

 

https://openmovement.org
 

Tom

Expand  

This is the way. Make a new bridge for an existing movement, see how that goes, and continue or not. Making a whole new movement from scratch is very daunting and few manage from that starting point. I've done it, and it probably shortened my lifespan, haha.

[tomh207]

  On 1/11/2024 at 6:42 PM, nickelsilver said:

This is the way. Make a new bridge for an existing movement, see how that goes, and continue or not. Making a whole new movement from scratch is very daunting and few manage from that starting point. I've done it, and it probably shortened my lifespan, haha.

Expand  

Gives me even more grey hairs just contemplating it at that level, never mind making everything

 

Tom

P.S. I’m pretty near like Gandalf/santa at this point

Edited January 11, 2024 by tomh207

[natanaelfh]

  On 1/9/2024 at 9:58 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Nat you didn't tell us what your background in engineering is. 

Expand  

Mechanical Engineer, but I have only been working for a year.

  On 1/10/2024 at 6:23 AM, nevenbekriev said:

Hi Nath,

My answer will differ from the others. As one who has built several lathes (not complicatet ones, but well working), I think i have this right.

Making own lathe is possible, at least I did my first one when I was 15 years old. Watchmaking was different before 150 years, one aprentice would never be proclamed 'watchmaker' untill he built by himself several different size and style clock and watch movements. And, learning the craft always started by lesons for filing, cutting, heat treatment, building simple tools, then more complicated ones... At that time the watch parts were not interchangeable at all and even repairing watches ment making parts when needed to replace.

Yes, buying lathe is easier and faster, but making one will make You eyes and mind much more open and You will obtain skills that others will only dream for. There is a Bulgarian fairy tail with wisdom inside that says about the Fox - She was hungry and tried to reach the grapes in a vineyard, but the grapes were too high for her to reach, so the Fox said they are too sour for her and went away...

Now, for making own movement... I will quote a Bulgarian Writer, one of his heroes said: ‘One is to WANT, another is to CAN, and 3th and 4th is to DO IT’. I will continue this thought with my own experience. When one is young, he WANTS, but he CAN'T. Then, when growing older, he gradually gathers experience and abilities, but when he is already experienced and able enough and he has proved that he CAN, he would probably has forgotten what he WANTed when he was young...

See, making movement is different if one will copy existing movement, or even only the escapement, than if he will design everything by himself. Designing will need many knowledge and experience...

Now, for the lathe design:

You will need one more bearing for the spindle. One on front, and one on the back. Single bearing, even if it is with two rows of balls, will not support the spindle stable enough.

What are this rails? What is planned to move on them? What is this thing on the front rail? Is it rail bearing?

Unless I will know the answers, I will be not able to say if it will work well or not.

Expand  

For the spindle, I was thinking about having two tapered bore bearings and then applying some pre-load to them. I was finding it difficult to find tapered bore bearings though, and the ones I found were very expensive. Looking at other peoples projects it seems having two deep groove bearings press fitted to the spindle and adding a pre-load worked fine. I am not confident that I could make the spindle accurate enough though.

For the rails. Yes its a rail bearing in the front. I was thinking having 3 or 4 of those on a platform that could be fixed in some way. Then the platform could hold the tools on a carriage that moved more accurately. Maybe even creating a small section of a "normal" bed so I could use vintage tools in the future.

I think my plan now is to buy a lathe after researching it a bit. Worst case is that I don't get this to work and I would have to sell it again, but it seems they move pretty quick on the market. So hopefully I would only be a few $100 in the red.

I just feel like a lot of what I would be paying money for is that the machine is old and it has a lot of history. And that is fine if I was a collector, but I'm not so I was hoping that building a new lathe using 21st century components would be cheaper.

[Kalanag]

  On 1/10/2024 at 6:23 AM, nevenbekriev said:

…My answer will differ from the others. As one who has built several lathes (not complicatet ones, but well working), I think i have this right...

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Watching your videos I found how you avoided buying these expensive chucks for your homemade lathe and deal with concentricity tolerances. I‘m impressed what you could achieve with good ideas and some extra time.

Edited January 17, 2024 by Kalanag

[nevenbekriev]

Thanks, but this is done 200 year before me exactly the same way, so no my ideas.

[JohnR725]

  On 1/17/2024 at 8:41 AM, Kalanag said:

I‘m impressed what you could achieve with good ideas and some extra time.

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What impresses me is when you look at what people do not just here but all kinds of fields where no one ever told them they can't do whatever it is they doing. So often times people can do phenomenal stuff because they didn't realize they're not supposed to bill would do it with either the tools of the knowledge they have.

  On 1/5/2024 at 11:38 PM, natanaelfh said:

making my own watch

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Depending upon how you do this making your own watch will require more tools than A lathe.

  On 1/5/2024 at 11:38 PM, natanaelfh said:

precise enough by using some time adjusting it

Expand  

If you're looking for precision then sometimes you abandon the modern watchmakers Lathe and go with something traditional like turning between centers.

Here's an interesting link on how to make one although somewhat amusing because the turns itself is a very simple device and hear a heck of a lot of equipment was required to make his.

https://watchmaking.weebly.com/the-turns.html

 

[nevenbekriev]

  On 1/17/2024 at 8:41 AM, Kalanag said:

...avoided buying these expensive chucks...

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Edited January 17, 2024 by nevenbekriev

[Neverenoughwatches]

  On 1/17/2024 at 3:53 PM, nevenbekriev said:

 

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Collet making clever stuff Nev