Is this anti-shock spring winning the battle ?? Tips & trick please ....

[Endeavor]

Hello All;

I'm working on a Soviet Raketa 2623.H and it starts to look like that one of the very little escape-wheel anti-shock springs is winning the battle.

The spring on one side is out, bit this one is putting up a stiff fight. I can squeeze both tips, but as soon as I try to lift them, the tweezers snap off. I dressed the tweezers tips, tried different tweezers etc etc, but so far no success.

Two questions;

1) Has somebody some tips or tricks to safely remove this little bugger ?

2) What to do if I just can't get it out? With no spare on hand, I don't want to brake the little spring either.

How best to "clean" it when no fancy cleaning-machine is on hand. Its been in the lighter fluid for over 24hrs, but obviously I like to get the cleaning fluid out before oiling with an incabloc needle oiler. Would forcing air through it (on the "open side" with a hand blower) be enough the "squeeze" the fluid from underneath the cap-stone?

Suggestions / ideas are very welcome

 

[ManSkirtBrew]

That looks like a tricky bugger. Curious that the bottom prong looks longer than the top one. I don't have any experience with these, but if it were me I'd try to get the two prongs free of the slot, then try to push the whole spring to the right of your picture.

Either that or prize up the top spring with a fine tweezer point and work it around to the left. I think you'd risk bending it this way, though.

In either case, I'd have plastic or Rodico over it. That looks like a prime candidate for the Swiss Space Program.

Quote

Would forcing air through it (on the "open side" with a hand blower) be enough the "squeeze" the fluid from underneath the cap-stone?

Probably not. I'd warm up the mainplate to evaporate it.

[mikepilk]

I use an old sharpened oiler on these - it's useful for all sorts of things

Edited December 14, 2023 by mikepilk

[Endeavor]

Good news to report

ManSkirtBrew was in the right direction. Under the microscope I used, while preventing the spring from rotating and with the spring in the same orientation as on the picture, a sewing needle-tip pushing from the right to the left, to lift the shorter prong. Because being under a microscope, I used Dumont N˚7 tweezers to push the shorter prong over the needle to the outside from left to the right. Basically, the sewing needle acted like a ramp upwards for the shorter prong. Slowly working the spring out of its recess.

The shorter prong was slightly bend upwards, but after cleaning the cap-stone and the pivot-jewel, the spring was installed "upside down".

Another interesting question would be, why such an "anti-shock" system for an escape-wheel ??

If I well remember, my Rolex 3135 had the same, but here we are not talking Rolex .......... or do we?

Anyhow, thanks for you help, another lesson learned

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Endeavor

[nevenbekriev]

1 hour ago, Endeavor said:

Another interesting question would be, why such an "anti-shock" system for an escape-wheel ??

If I well remember, my Rolex 3135 had the same, but here we are not talking Rolex .......... or do we?

 

 

This has nothing to do with antishock. Just cap jevel fixed in place by the spring. In Rolex too.

[Nucejoe]

I concur with Neven, this is just a retaining clip.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, Endeavor said:

Hello All;

I'm working on a Soviet Raketa 2623.H and it starts to look like that one of the very little escape-wheel anti-shock springs is winning the battle.

The spring on one side is out, bit this one is putting up a stiff fight. I can squeeze both tips, but as soon as I try to lift them, the tweezers snap off. I dressed the tweezers tips, tried different tweezers etc etc, but so far no success.

Two questions;

1) Has somebody some tips or tricks to safely remove this little bugger ?

2) What to do if I just can't get it out? With no spare on hand, I don't want to brake the little spring either.

How best to "clean" it when no fancy cleaning-machine is on hand. Its been in the lighter fluid for over 24hrs, but obviously I like to get the cleaning fluid out before oiling with an incabloc needle oiler. Would forcing air through it (on the "open side" with a hand blower) be enough the "squeeze" the fluid from underneath the cap-stone?

Suggestions / ideas are very welcome

 

I've come across these in a few different Russian calibers. Used acupuncture needles in the past but the steel tend to be a bit aggressive for these little springs, they are quite weak as might be evident on yours, i dont remember the locating tabs being of different lengths. I now use a toothpick with a condom on the end ( dont ask !!  Well actually maybe you should ) and a titanium probe which is more forgiving than steel. Dont release one tab and then try to draw the spring out, it will either ping on you or snap if you are unlucky. I find it best to release both tabs,  and use the condom pick to hold it in position while you do this.

[RichardHarris123]

59 minutes ago, nevenbekriev said:

This has nothing to do with antishock. Just cap jevel fixed in place by the spring.

Why not just have a plate?

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Why not just have a plate?

Bumps up the jewel count.  Keeps the hole clean ?  Keeps the lubrication in place by capillary action beween the two jewels.

[nevenbekriev]

See, the pivot is like a pivot of balance staf, the shoulder is rounded. The tip must rest on the cap stone, so if the capstone is removed, big axial free play will be there and even the down side pivot may go out of the hole. Why? Ask the manufacturer... For prestige may be. But on dial side no cap stone and normal cylindrical pivot in normal jewel

[RichardHarris123]

10 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Bumps up the jewel count.  Keeps the hole clean ?  Keeps the lubrication in place by capillary action beween the two jewels.

I meant a plate holding the cap jewel. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I meant a plate holding the cap jewel. 

 

3 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

I meant a plate holding the cap jewel. 

Like the endpieces that were marked up on the fhf that i did.  dont know why, but i know which i prefer removing and fitting.

[Endeavor]

12 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

But on dial side no cap stone and normal cylindrical pivot in normal jewel

This movement has capstones on either side.

 

13 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

i dont remember the locating tabs being of different lengths

Both springs had one shorter tab. The movement was untouched, therefor the little retainer springs were in original shape.

 

12 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Bumps up the jewel count.

There is no mention of the number of jewels on the dial nor on the movement. As I once read, in the Soviet period, from a commercial point of view (unlike in the west), the amount of jewels wasn't considered such an important sales point. I don't think that they added these jewels to boost sales. Prestige is a possibility ...

Edited December 15, 2023 by Endeavor

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Endeavor said:

Both springs had one shorter tab. The movement was untouched, therefor the little retainer springs were in original shape.

you may well be right, its just something i dont remember seeing ,  it is possible that they were poorly manufactured. The Russian quality wasn't great at that time, there is a video somewhere in the forum archives of the Raketa factory from years ago, it was wow nonexistent health and safety for starters. I have quite a few of the train bridges kicking around, i will dig them out as soon as I've had breakie and come back to you. 

[VWatchie]

Had the same problem not too long ago! Very nice watch BTW! 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by VWatchie

[Endeavor]

On 12/15/2023 at 11:22 PM, VWatchie said:

Had the same problem not too long ago! Very nice watch BTW! 

Wish I would have known .....

In the end, I solved the problem in same way as you did and clearly, the shorter leg of the spring is by design. If I would have known your article, perhaps I would have had some more hair left on my head

And that's another thing, most articles just get lost in the dust-bin of data-bits ......

Edited December 17, 2023 by Endeavor

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Endeavor said:

Wish I would have known .....

In the end, I solved the problem in same way as you did and clearly, the shorter leg of the spring is by design. If I would have known your article, perhaps I would have had some more hair left on my head

And that's another thing, most articles just get lost in the dust-bin of data-bits ......

Absolutely right Endeavor, I've just pulled a couple out, the legs are indeed different lengths. I either didn't notice at the time or more likely just didn't remember.  

[rossjackson01]

Endeavour.

Gem of a comment. Fact now in the database brain. Ta.

[VWatchie]

3 hours ago, Endeavor said:

the shorter leg of the spring is by design

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

the legs are indeed different lengths

The post I linked to was from when I serviced a Raketa 2609.HA, but when I later serviced a 2623.H (same as yours) I believe I found it easier to pray on the long leg. I'm not perfectly sure I remember it correctly but I thought I'd mention it.

While we're on the topic, I intended to create a service walkthrough for the Raketa 2609.HA, but never followed through. Not that I think you need it @Endeavor but for what it's worth here are links to my raw images for the intended walkthrough.

Raketa 2609.HA Disassembly pictures (please sort by name in ascending order)

Raketa 2609.HA Assembly pictures (please sort by name in ascending order)

When I later serviced the 2623.H, the only noticeable difference I found was the cover plate over the dial train/motion works.

BTW, I had a very tricky problem when I serviced the 2609.HA. After the service the train wheels were binding and it took a lot to figure it out. 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by VWatchie