First Ladies Watch - What have I done wrong?

[ColinC]

This weekend I decided to I would try to fix up my Mum's old watch with the hopes of showing it to her when I see her is a couple of weeks time.

I have wound up with a watch that is looking great and working very well but I have a piece left over!!!

The watch is built around a FEF 6630 movement 
FEF 6630.pdf


While disassembling the watch I found that the crown wheel ring seemed to be stuck to its post on the barrel bridge (something I have seen several times before on other old dirty watches).  I made a mental note of it and intended to go back and look at it after I had safely removed the click spring.  I forgot...

After removing the plates from the first jar in my cleaning cycle I saw a small polished silver ring sitting on the bottom of the jar and thought "yes that must be the crown wheel ring I was supposed to look at"
 

When I got around to reassembling the watch, I found that there was no space for the ring around the post on the barrel bridge where I thought it was supposed to go and the that the crown wheel fit perfectly over the post without the ring.

Looking at my disassembly photos and the barrel bridge now, I see that the post where the crown wheel sits is a lot bigger than I expected and was not, as I had thought during the disassembly, a post with a ring stuck on it.

Looking at the specification (attached) I see there is supposed to be a crown wheel ring but it also looks like the post on my barrel bridge is bigger that the one in the diagram (hard to tell really).

The crown wheel ring fits nicely inside the hole in the crown wheel  - but is no where near able to fit on the post

Any idea of what is going on here?

Here are some photos

Photo 1: Post without the crown wheel or crown wheel ring

Photo 2:  Crown wheel installed over the post

Photo 3: Crown ring wheel sitting on top of the post (doesn't seem to belong here!)

[nickelsilver]

Flip it over and try, my first thing to do (the ring).

[ColinC]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

Flip it over and try, my first thing to do (the ring).

Thanks for the suggestion but that isn't it.

Here is a photo from my disassembly
My observations:
1. There is no bright silver ring around the post 
2. The post appears to be a different colour than the rest of the plate / watch

Since it is not on the post in this photo, I wonder where it could have come from?  To be found on the bottom of the cleaning jar it must have been stuck to a plate (if it was stuck to the crown wheel then I would have noticed it and it would have fallen off in one of the baskets not loose in the jar)

[GuyMontag]

The parts list for that movement only shows one 'ring', the crown ring.

Edited October 28, 2023 by GuyMontag

[JohnR725]

6 hours ago, ColinC said:

After removing the plates from the first jar in my cleaning cycle I saw a small polished silver ring sitting on the bottom of the jar and thought "yes that must be the crown wheel ring I was supposed to look at"

I don't suppose this is a part left over from the last watch you cleaned?

[Kalanag]

Could the ring be from the crown?

 

[ColinC]

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I don't suppose this is a part left over from the last watch you cleaned?

I have wished that was the case. I went and checked the previous watch I worked on to see if it was missing a crown wheel ring.  It wasn’t… and it still doesn’t explain why the additional part is on the parts list

2 hours ago, Kalanag said:

Could the ring be from the crown?

It is much smaller than that - and on the parts list is called a crown wheel ring.

Here is a photo of the ring sitting inside the crown wheel where I assume it is supposed to go - but as I said before the ring is exactly the same size as the post - there is no way both can fit.

[HectorLooi]

I think your crown wheel is upside down. If you flip it over, there should be a recess.

[ColinC]

49 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I think your crown wheel is upside down. If you flip it over, there should be a recess.

Thanks for the suggestion  - I really confused as to where this has come from and really appreciate any time anyone spends looking into or suggesting what has happened!

I have looked at that too - the crown wheel and the ratchet wheel are both nicely finished with a swirly pattern on the top side and there is a chamfer on the teeth - the underneath is flat and does not have the nice finish.

I am wondering if this isn't some cruel trick from whoever serviced it last....

Is it possible the wider post that is in the watch (where the outside dimensions are the same as the crown wheel ring) is a customisation to this movement and that the during the previous service someone went through the parts list, saw the crown wheel ring was missing and sourced a new one and then found it didn't go anywhere so they hid it at the bottom of some screw hole to mess with the next person?
 

Edited October 29, 2023 by ColinC

[HectorLooi]

Actually, after looking at your photos more closely, it appears that the crown wheel ring is stuck on the post. Can you try turning the ring-like thing on the post to see if it moves?

[ColinC]

3 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Actually, after looking at your photos more closely, it appears that the crown wheel ring is stuck on the post. Can you try turning the ring-like thing on the post to see if it moves?

This is what I originally thought while disassembling the watch.  And why when I found a ring at the bottom of the jar why I assumed I knew where it came from!

I have not been able to get that thing that looks like it could be a ring to move.  I definitely don't want to scratch or apply any force to this movement (which I will admit is a whole different price class than I have ever touched before!).  I have tried gently to grab it and twist it with brass tweezers. It also went through 5 jars and over 30 mins in total in the ultrasonic - that typically frees up stuff.  I really don't think there is a ring there.  I have also looked through the microscope under 20x magnification and can't see any gaps suggesting that the post is more than 1 piece. 

I would so love the ring to be something I lost on a previous cleaning cycle - but I have never been short a ring in the past. I also did not find it during and have no photos of it from my disassembly.  It just seems such a coincidence that I find a ring in the jar after cleaning that matches the ring in the parts listing and the post is too big to take the ring.

[GuyMontag]

I have a FEF 6600 that looks like it has the same layout as yours so I can take a look. The barrel bridge has a lot of rust on it and the crown wheel screw isn't loosening in either direction with slight force. Before I give it a good torque, which direction does the crown wheel unscrew?

[GuyMontag]

I got the crown wheel off. Mine looks like this.

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by GuyMontag

[ColinC]

5 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I got the crown wheel off. Mine looks like this.

Thanks!! This is really helpful!

Your barrel bridge looks identical but your crown wheel has a much larger hole in the middle where the ring sits.

I guess this could be a compromise on my watch to make the display backed watch look better?

I am beginning to believe that I have assembled my watch correctly and that the extra ring does not have a place in this watch

Edited October 30, 2023 by ColinC
clarification