My Star Lathe just arrived by courier...

[Juleswatch]

Hi folks,

I've talked to some of you over the last days about the fact that I was going to buy a lathe - well here it is just out of the couriers van and quickly assembled to make sure that everything that I was supposed to get - I got and it seems I did, nice start. Now I am going to take it apart and lubricate it and then test out the motor. The wife says I have to get it off the dinning table before I lubricate it and fire it up...

OK so the motor works! Now I have to figure out the oiling and using part!

Any comments on things to look out for welcome.

Once I figured out how to do something useful I'll send you some photos!

All the best...Jules

It seems from a bit of video watching that I have some collets in my set but not a collet chuck. If anybody can take a look at the photo and correct me or explain what it is I would use that's be great. All there best...Jules

[Klassiker]

Remove the the chuck that is fitted. Hold it tight and unscrew the draw bar a couple of turns. Give it a tap with a mallet. Now unscrew the draw bar completely while supporting the chuck. Don't let it drop onto the bed! The back end of the chuck should have a profile like your collets; cylindrical then a tapered portion. The draw bar should have a thread which fits the collets. You should now see how the collets fit into the headstock.

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, Juleswatch said:

Hi folks,

I've talked to some of you over the last days about the fact that I was going to buy a lathe - well here it is just out of the couriers van and quickly assembled to make sure that everything that I was supposed to get - I got and it seems I did, nice start. Now I am going to take it apart and lubricate it and then test out the motor. The wife says I have to get it off the dinning table before I lubricate it and fire it up...

OK so the motor works! Now I have to figure out the oiling and using part!

Any comments on things to look out for welcome.

Once I figured out how to do something useful I'll send you some photos!

All the best...Jules

It seems from a bit of video watching that I have some collets in my set but not a collet chuck. If anybody can take a look at the photo and correct me or explain what it is I would use that's be great. All there best...Jules

Those are also called split chucks Jules. They fit direct to the headstock and pull tight with the drawbar in the same way the jawed chucks do. Notice the keyway in the side of the collet that coincides with a mating section inside the headstock.  Be sure to locate this before drawing them in. I thought the lathe came with a full set of these ? a full set comprises of in the region of 40 +.

[oldhippy]

I can't see any tommy bars for the three jaw chuck that is fitted on the lathe. Easy to make or just buy. 

[Juleswatch]

Thanks for the fast responses folks, much appreciated! I am in my seven day keep or return phase and I really like the lathe, but it's quite a bit different than those I used years ago which were much much larger - so I want to make sure I am getting what I need.

I'm up early here in Brazil doing some of my regular work so I can get to stripping down the lathe and checking it all out, but it looks like a keeper.

NE No I'm afraid it just came with five split chucks, so looks like I'll be on the look out for more. It did come with two chucks a three and four jaw one.

OH you are right there is no tommy bar just two Allen keys to take it off.

OH I was trying to figure out how I would close the three jaw chuck last night and there's the answer missing part!

The other lathes I was able to source here in Brazil all seemed to have something missing, and to import one to Brazil would mean a 60% import tax, so I'm hoping I've got a good start I can add to? I will look for split chucks tonight and see how much they go for.

If you have a photo of the three jaw chuck with a tommy bar do me a favour and post it and I'll make or buy one.

I'll ask the guy who sold it to me if he has any other parts he forgot to give me or would sell me for a reasonable price, he says he has a collection of lathes.

All the best...Jules

Klassiker, thanks for that I just saw your message - things are starting to make sense now, loving all the comments and advice, so important when you're starting out!

[oldhippy]

Here you are chuck with tommy bars.

[Juleswatch]

Thanks OH now I get what the holes are for! All slowly starting to come together. I can make a set of those.

[tomh207]

Hi Jules,

have a look here for collet dimensions, not all 8mm lathe collets are the same. Measure yours up to check them against the star entries. There should be a couple of matches in the list which will give you a few options when buying.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/collets/

Tom

Edited September 13, 2023 by tomh207

[Neverenoughwatches]

9 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Hi Jules,

have a look here for collet dimensions, not all 8mm lathe collets are the same. Measure yours up to check them against the star entries. There should be a couple of matches in the list which will give you a few options when buying.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/collets/

Tom

F--k me Tom have you seen how much some of the Bergeon collets (wolf jahn) are from cousins. 

9 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Hi Jules,

have a look here for collet dimensions, not all 8mm lathe collets are the same. Measure yours up to check them against the star entries. There should be a couple of matches in the list which will give you a few options when buying.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/collets/

Tom

Same list as from De Carle's lathe book.  The 8mm Lorch takes the same collets as the 8mm star  thats a big bonus when sourcing.

11 hours ago, Juleswatch said:

NE No I'm afraid it just came with five split chucks, so looks like I'll be on the look out for more. It did come with two chucks a three and four jaw one.

Double check the 8mm Lorch collet sizes, much more of those are advertised Jules. There are a few others that match up as well. 

17 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

F--k me Tom have you seen how much some of the Bergeon collets (wolf jahn) are from cousins. 

Am i reading this right ? For just one collet ? 

[tomh207]

Hey Rich,

I only looked the once at the bergeon lathe, £38,000 for a lathe was not an option . I think the only manufacturers of watchmakers lathes left are Sherline, Bergeon, Star and the 2 Chinese ones.

I do have a bunch of Lorch collet’s which do look like they are identical to Star collets, I don’t think I would get more than a 40th of that bergeon price for one iirc they are the less common larger sizes but not over 5mm, or size 50 if you prefer.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

16 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Hey Rich,

I only looked the once at the bergeon lathe, £38,000 for a lathe was not an option . I think the only manufacturers of watchmakers lathes left are Sherline, Bergeon, Star and the 2 Chinese ones.

I do have a bunch of Lorch collet’s which do look like they are identical to Star collets, I don’t think I would get more than a 40th of that bergeon price for one iirc they are the less common larger sizes but not over 5mm, or size 50 if you prefer.

 

Tom

I still need a cross slide for the wolf, i hear that yours is gathering dust

[Juleswatch]

Thanks for the heads up folks, actually a couple of the split collets I have are Lorch I checked them today and they work fine. Not that I knew that there were different dimensions at that point just good beginners luck, or the guy that sold me the lathe was being nice. I was able to speak to the seller today and he told me that he had bought a whole retired watchmakers shop contents some years ago and that's where the Star came from. Unfortunately he didn't have any more collets or tools.

Wow that's a heavy price for one unit - I've seen some much cheaper ones here in my quick check today, although I will check the dimensions against the ones I have and the Lathe before I splash out.

On the good news side after getting dragged back to my normal work this morning even though I claim to be semi-retired I was able to set up the Star in my workshop (not the dinning table like yesterday so zero wrath from the missus) and it seems to be working fine. I stripped it down cleaned it up, lubricated it, checked the motor, set it up and had a quick play, nothing elaborated really just to see if I got any tremble or noises I thought I shouldn't see. All seems to be well. Also wired it through the variable speed pedal I use for my cleaning tool and it seems to work great, it didn't come with it's own pedal.

Also my two A. Schild 8 day balance shafts arrived from France this afternoon, so I shall get to have a play over the next days, trying to get the old ones out of the balance wheels and the new ones in without damaging too much. My easier option full balance wheel assemblies made it from Virginia to Miami so far and apparently they are on their way to Brazil and should be delivered at the end of October - so I guess in at the deep end it is for me. I was watching J.D Richards on youtube drill out a balance staff on his lathe last night but I don't have drills like that yet, or the attachment he had bought. I do have a staking set arriving on Friday, so let's see where we go over the weekend.

As always any pointers are welcome!

All the best...Jules

[tomh207]

7 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I still need a cross slide for the wolf, i hear that yours is gathering dust

Once I get a round tuit in my possession I’ll get back on it.

@Juleswatch what are the prices like for the Lorch collets there in sunny Brazil?

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

30 minutes ago, Juleswatch said:

was watching J.D Richards on youtube drill out a balance staff on his lathe last night but I don't have drills like that yet, or the attachment he had bought. I do have a staking set arriving on Friday, so let's see where we go over the weekend.

As always any pointers are welcome!

One of the ways to remove a balance staff from its wheel is to cut away the rivet that holds it in place.  This is performed on a lathe using a hand graver. I wonder what jd was drilling ?

27 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

Once I get a round tuit in my possession I’ll get back on it.

@Juleswatch what are the prices like for the Lorch collets there in sunny Brazil?

 

Tom

It can gather dust just as easily in my house

[Juleswatch]

I was browsing on Mercado Livre (it's like a local eBay) and found a set of 30 Lorch collets, following up I found out I needed to buy the lathe too about 600 pounds for the lot so thats 20 pounds per collet (better than the Burgeon option of one) if you include a free lathe and other tools. Then I read further and it's 6mm, so thats not going to work (I assume?). Pity I almost bought my second lathe this week! The other options I found so far send me through to eBay brazil but then you are generally importing so I might as well just buy collets in the US or Europe through eBay if I was going to do the latter. The final option took me through to Aliexpress where they have a set of 20 8mm collets for about 200 pounds. So unless I find something on the auctions sites I tend to drift through then its eBay or Aliexpress for me. Should I assume I would be better off with the eBay options?

 

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

One of the ways to remove a balance staff from its wheel is to cut away the rivet that holds it in place.  This is performed on a lathe using a hand graver. I wonder what jd was drilling ?

"Repivoting a Watch Balance Staff on a Watchmakers Lathe"- on his you tube channel

[Neverenoughwatches]

56 minutes ago, Juleswatch said:

I was browsing on Mercado Livre (it's like a local eBay) and found a set of 30 Lorch collets, following up I found out I needed to buy the lathe too about 600 pounds for the lot so thats 20 pounds per collet (better than the Burgeon option of one) if you include a free lathe and other tools. Then I read further and it's 6mm, so thats not going to work (I assume?). Pity I almost bought my second lathe this week! The other options I found so far send me through to eBay brazil but then you are generally importing so I might as well just buy collets in the US or Europe through eBay if I was going to do the latter. The final option took me through to Aliexpress where they have a set of 20 8mm collets for about 200 pounds. So unless I find something on the auctions sites I tend to drift through then its eBay or Aliexpress for me. Should I assume I would be better off with the eBay options?

 

"Repivoting a Watch Balance Staff on a Watchmakers Lathe"- on his you tube channel

 Personally i would rather have old Swiss or German over fresh new Chinese, unless you are back to lingerie again Jules, then i'd be more swayed towards an Asian thong over a big old pair of Helga's bloomers ( only just swayed mind you ) Re. the repivot tricky procedure by all accounts, Nicklesilver has stated previously he would rather make a new staff.

[Juleswatch]

Might be easier to stay on lingerie, but I'm trying to widen my horizons, perhaps I can fit in time for a new staff. Probably go with more old Swiss or German - heads up appreciated - not sure about Helga - might leave her to you

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

jd was drilling

Best not to ask that question

16 hours ago, tomh207 said:

have a look here for collet dimensions, not all 8mm lathe collets are the same.

Maybe a book would be helpful for this like at the link below.  This is a very good book on watchmakers lathes covers a whole variety of topics.

https://archive.org/details/watchmakerslathe00good

 

6 hours ago, Juleswatch said:

J.D Richards on youtube drill out a balance staff

I still don't like the sound of that. I think it would be better to start a new discussion with how to replace a balance staff and you can get off in the right direction versus well to be honest I really don't want to know what he's doing I try not watches videos.

 

 

 

 

[tomh207]

@Juleswatch £10 a collet seems to be a rough median buying second hand collets. The Chinese ones as far as I can find out are WW pattern and not the same as Lorch/wolf Jahn/Star. The prices can vary though from if you’re lucky £6 upto £18 depending on the size, larger collets like 60(6mm) or the in between sizes like 29(2.9mm) tend towards the more expensive as there are a lot fewer of them around. I think a full and complete set is around ~70 collets.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

9 hours ago, Juleswatch said:

J.D Richards on youtube drill out a balance staff

I still don't like the sound of that. I think it would be better to start a new discussion with how to replace a balance staff and you can get off in the right direction versus well to be honest I really don't want to know what he's doing I try not watches videos.

 

 

Apparently Repivoting the staff John, there are a few good videos on the technique. I have a couple of the purpose designed gadgets to do it, ive never tried them, i guess a diy way get out for folk that cant aquire or make a staff themselves, sounds like you are not an advocate of the idea John ?

16 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

@Juleswatch £10 a collet seems to be a rough median buying second hand collets. The Chinese ones as far as I can find out are WW pattern and not the same as Lorch/wolf Jahn/Star. The prices can vary though from if you’re lucky £6 upto £18 depending on the size, larger collets like 60(6mm) or the in between sizes like 29(2.9mm) tend towards the more expensive as there are a lot fewer of them around. I think a full and complete set is around ~70 collets.

 

Tom

You're about bob on with those prices Tom, i was very lucky with my wolf, i had 1 missing out of a set of 40 from 0.1 to 4. A seller showed up on ebay shortly after i bought it with the 0.6 selling for 12 quid. 

[JohnR725]

5 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

sounds like you are not an advocate of the idea John ?

That wasn't what I was hinting at. I heard stories of people in the shops who can  repair the staff faster than most people can replace one. But that wasn't what I was annoyed with it mainly had to do with the entire YouTube channel I'm just not a fan of his.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

That wasn't what I was hinting at. I heard stories of people in the shops who can  repair the staff faster than most people can replace one. But that wasn't what I was annoyed with it mainly had to do with the entire YouTube channel I'm just not a fan of his.

 

Oh i see, thanks for clarifying , i have to say i was a bit disappointed when I thought you were not a fan of the technique, i hoped it was a fair idea and more within my scope than making a staff . Somethings you just have to try  for yourself and see how they work out. 

[JohnR725]

So much of anything we do related to a balance staff is dependent upon the equipment you have and your skill set. As I said I've heard stories of people who can re-pivot faster than you could replace a staff. I've also heard stories of people can make new balance staffs very very quickly. Then for others it's just replacing the balance staff it just depends on what you have your skill set etc.

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 hours ago, Juleswatch said:

Might be easier to stay on lingerie, but I'm trying to widen my horizons, perhaps I can fit in time for a new staff. Probably go with more old Swiss or German - heads up appreciated - not sure about Helga - might leave her to you

Haha, you said "might" you cant be too fussy at our age .

[Juleswatch]

Thanks for all the comments - a lot to learn, to drill or not to drill, to make or not to make, or to buy and replace - a book seems like a good plan! Thanks for the link I'll take a look today. I was also considering a book called "The watchmakers lathe and how to use it" by Archie Perkins - pricey so hopefully a nice book, has anybody seen it or have it, recommend it or not?

Also thanks for the price ranges on collets, there seem to be some on eBay that are coming out of an estate sale that seem quite well priced, i shall measure mine today and ask some questions of the seller. I'll pick some up as needed and as they become available for a reasonable price.

As you say my might was there for a reason, we just can't be too fussy!!