Is there a future in watchmaking??

[LittleWatchShop]

I hope my title was good enough to pique your interest!!

Last night I was at our local Watchmakers Guild meeting (associated with AWCI). Average age of the attendees was probably 77.  Would have been higher were it not for @Drew showing up!!

Anyway, one of the members is connected with a junior college in Paris Texas where they have a two-year watchmaking course.  He was talking to the professor the other day and discovered that the current class is full and there is a wait list for the next one.  Also, many of his students get jobs after their third semester!!

One data point does not define a trend.  Nevertheless, this was encouraging in one sense.  On the other sense, I will have more competition on ebay!!

[thor447]

I think that's great news.  I found that, at least in my local area, there is a serious lack of watchmakers available.  There are only two that I know of within an hour drive of me.  One works for a AD, and another is private and has multitudes of bad reviews online.  It doesn't affect me personally, as I picked up this hobby as a way to service my own watches, but there is most certainly a public demand for qualified watchmakers in my area and not much in the way of people to provide that service.

I also agree with you on eBay.  I'm finding it more and more expensive as of late.  Project watches are fetching prices that I'd never consider paying.  Perhaps I need to reevaluate what I think a watch may be worth, but some of these old/neglected watches are brining double what I could've bought them for a year or two ago.

Edited August 23, 2023 by thor447

[rehajm]

That's interesting and consistent with what I'm seeing and hearing. The older professionals are doing a great job encouraging young and younger people to participate, both professionally and as a hobby. I recently trekked to a watch shop I've wanted to visit for years and behind the counter there's a glass partition separating the store from the watchmaker's labs. With the exception of the acclaimed owner the benches were full and occupied by twenty and thritysomethings. 

...an eight week wait to service your timepiece, btw...

...and I agree about pricing but supply/demand curves rule. Frustrating for me is certain bench tools cannot be acquired at any price...

Edited August 23, 2023 by rehajm

[Galilea]

Worthy topic, thank you! I have a tribe of grand nephews and one niece aged 10-20 and not a single one will accept a watch as a gift from me. One of them, a 12-year-old summed it up with "Pfft! No thank you, I always have my phone". Troubling, but there is a glimmer of good news. Last week I happened to have several trays of pocket watches out when several of the 12–15-year-olds came barreling through. Suddenly they threw on the brakes, skidded into the pocket watch zone and were spellbound. "Ohhh! Those are pocket watches, right?" and "How do they work?". There seems to be a show on the web that the kids like, which features pocket watches somehow.

That might be more than anecdotal. I think it is reasonable to assume that the future of watch making is tied to the future of watch collecting, and it looks like interest will be there. It also tells me that it's going to be all about marketing/product placement in the appropriate social media streams. The one grand-niece streams on YouTube with maybe 30k followers and I am going to bribe/ cajole her until she starts wearing a watch. As far as the rest of those kids go, heck no, they cannot have a pocket watch, that free offer was for wrist watches only, now that I know what they want. They'll need to do some hard labor around my place if they want one.

That, too, might be broadened - to the eBay high prices conversation. I think that pricing is just like the above, it all falls somewhere on the supply/demand curve, as others have stated. To me, as a collector with way too many project watches and parts, that is good news, and means it is time to sell! If I get it together to do so, I will make money - proof it can be done. 

This last is bootstrapped, but I know that people value costly things more than lesser-cost things. If the parts and project watches cost more, the final product will cost more, and finally the end consumer will prize the watch more. Which might stimulate collecting, thus watch making? It's a stretch.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

On 8/23/2023 at 12:09 PM, Galilea said:

I always have my phone

Well, if it were the only purpose of a watch.  For those of us who love mechanical watches, it is more like an art.  I carry my android phone so I know the time within a nanosecond I suppose, but I still look at my watch and admire the beauty of what is inside.

[JohnR725]

On 8/23/2023 at 8:15 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

Average age of the attendees was probably 77.  Would have been higher were it not for @Drew showing up!!

in Seattle we have a former AWCI chapter in other words we didn't like their politics and we said goodbye.  were still surviving still having meetings and yes senior discount for membership is kind of a running joke because a sizable percentage of the members are over well yes to getting older. Although we do have some younger members but yes it's a definite concern that watchmakers are getting older.

On 8/23/2023 at 8:15 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

Anyway, one of the members is connected with a junior college in Paris Texas where they have a two-year watchmaking course.  He was talking to the professor the other day and discovered that the current class is full and there is a wait list for the next one.  Also, many of his students get jobs after their third semester!!

 

watch repair schools are interesting in this country after World War II all the veterans had their money lots of schools popped up including watch repair. There also really big schools I have a picture of somewhere I could never find it will find it there must've been almost 100 people in the room learning watch repair. In the state of Washington when I started and watch repair the risk three professional schools teaching watchmaking and/or clockmaking. With a bonus Thursday night class open to anybody basically hobbyists and collectors.

Then with time the perception of we no longer need this to the schools disappeared. North Seattle community college is still teaching watch repair but it's now being sponsored by Rolex. The Thursday night class did something interesting it formed a school. Teaches evening clock repair basic watch repair in the advanced watch repair. It gets inquiries on a regular basis as I do their websites even this morning somebody inquired about online learning.. For which Mark should be happy I send them to his online and this discussion group.

So basically the total number of schools graduating watchmakers in this country has dramatically declined with an amusing problem.

On 8/23/2023 at 10:09 AM, Galilea said:

"Pfft! No thank you, I always have my phone".

this actually represents a problem of deer smart phones will a kill off the mechanical watch never. Basically the smart phone is replacing the cheap digital watch what about mechanical timepieces? I don't remember the years but they're basically several years where there was a panic over the end of the mechanical watch the Swiss companies were upsets and that's all a thing of the past the Swiss companies are producing lots and lots of mechanical watches and making a heck of a lot of money. Seiko is making lots of mechanical watches and not just cheaper mechanical watches they have several different levels of higher and higher and mechanical watches and of course they're doing quartz watches Seiko has their grands Seiko with the rather amusing spring spring drive. I'm waiting until they produces a much cheaper version though.

 

On 8/23/2023 at 10:09 AM, Galilea said:

There seems to be a show on the web that the kids like, which features pocket watches somehow.

I've heard stories of kids seeing this video. So this may have been what they saw from my understanding of the source that I found out about this a four-year-old kid saw this in the want to be a watchmaker

 

 

[KarlvonKoln]

To those who answer with "I'll always have my phone with me", I have been known to produce some responses - "You'll always have A phone, but they go obsolete after a time, so don't get too attached."  Also - "Not if you leave it on the bus, or some dude steals it while you're buying your smokes." And there's less to worry about when a thing is strapped to your wrist or chained to a garment.
And then there's the bother of having to swipe and use my fingerprint to unlock the phone - just to check the time?  I could just glance at my wrist.
But a watch, while seeming less than a smart phone in some ways, is more than that in others.  Let's be real: it's jewelry too.  Functional.  And mechanical ones don't cease functioning like smart devices do when updates to their operating systems are no longer supported.  How many high-end watches have outlived their original owners?  By many decades?  A smart watch will never be a worthy heirloom, if it ever does become one.  For those who inherit them, many analog watches become vessels for the memories of their owners.  In marking the time, these watches become a part of our time here.  They span our time, and help tell the story of that time to those who come after.  Smart devices don't stir our emotions and touch our hearts the way fine watches do.  And it is possible they may never be able to do so.  And so the owners of fine old watches should have someone to turn to, if they need repair.  
So I will do whatever I can to inspire others in this.  There are too too few of us, my friends.

[Galilea]

4 minutes ago, KarlvonKoln said:

To those who answer with "I'll always have my phone with me", I have been known to produce some responses - "You'll always have A phone, but they go obsolete after a time, so don't get too attached."  Also - "Not if you leave it on the bus, or some dude steals it while you're buying your smokes." And there's less to worry about when a thing is strapped to your wrist or chained to a garment.
And then there's the bother of having to swipe and use my fingerprint to unlock the phone - just to check the time?  I could just glance at my wrist.
But a watch, while seeming less than a smart phone in some ways, is more than that in others.  Let's be real: it's jewelry too.  Functional.  And mechanical ones don't cease functioning like smart devices do when updates to their operating systems are no longer supported.  How many high-end watches have outlived their original owners?  By many decades?  A smart watch will never be a worthy heirloom, if it ever does become one.  For those who inherit them, many analog watches become vessels for the memories of their owners.  In marking the time, these watches become a part of our time here.  They span our time, and help tell the story of that time to those who come after.  Smart devices don't stir our emotions and touch our hearts the way fine watches do.  And it is possible they may never be able to do so.  And so the owners of fine old watches should have someone to turn to, if they need repair.  
So I will do whatever I can to inspire others in this.  There are too too few of us, my friends.

Wow, Karl, right on! I love the part about having some dude steal it lol. Then there is if you forget to charge your phone, if you drop it in a toilet, whatever.

The urban folk legend saying that everything digital will be wiped out in the event of nuclear war or strong magnetic currents has been debunked I think. But sometimes I still to imagine a scenario like that. Then, I would have a large chunk of the timepieces in my area, to barter with and to underwrite radical moments with, synchronize critical actions; to plan the future. Doesn't that sound scary good? If I ever finish my courses here, I would be doubly valuable, could repair them too.

[HectorLooi]

You are a hopeless romantic, Karl. Unfortunately the younger generation doesn't see things our way. My nephew doesn't even own a watch. He says "Why would I want a tan line on my wrist?"

I went to his new home recently and there isn't a single clock in his house.

Things come and go but there will always be small enclaves of resistance. Take for instance the audio industry. When digital audio came along, there were heated dabates on digital vs analog. But nowadays, even the audiophiles have accepted digital audio. My nephew, the one who doesn't own a watch, is a sound engineer. But he doesn't own a CD player, turntable or even a radio. He gets everything online from Spotify and itunes.

What about photography? Sure, there are diehard film photography fans but we can't deny the convenience of digital photos. How would this forum even exist without digital photos?

Coming back to horology, most watch enthusiasts are ...ahem... seniors. If you take a poll of the members on this forum, I'm sure most of us are retirees or semi-retired. Most watchmakers I've seen are in the sixties, seventies and even eighties. I'm not sure of what the situation would be like in 20yrs time. Horology might become so exotic that only high-end, specialty shops exist. 

I attended a local watch fair here in Singapore last year, featuring local watch microbrands. It was supposed to bring together collectors, manufacturers, designers and watchmakers for networking. Sounds good, right?

But I was sorely disappointed. Real watchmakers numbered about 10. The rest were pawnbrokers, modders, arty farty types who think that putting bling on a watch qualifies them as watchmakers. 

Is there hope for watchmaking? I'm not sure. I dropped by my mentor's one day introduction to watchmaking courses a couple of times and was surprised to see young people there. One group was from a tech company that organized it as a bonding activity for their engineers.

I also know a watchmaker who organizes father/son bonding activities by building a diy clock kit together.

Who knows? Young people are mostly money driven. If horology pays as well as investment banking, then there is definitely a future.

Edited August 25, 2023 by HectorLooi
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