Mainspring winder - what am I doing wrong?

[GuyMontag]

I've been happily using my mainspring winders for the last year or so. I went through a bit of a learning curve at the start but haven't had any issues since the beginning. However, I am having a problem getting this mainspring in the winder. The short video shows three (failed) attempts at getting the mainspring in the winder. I can't see what the issue is or what I would change as it's the same as I always do. Any thoughts on what the problem is (other than too much grease)?

[BTW, this is from a Longines 285 manual wind. Doesn't this look like an automatic bridle?]

 

[HectorLooi]

That's so weird. Maybe the bridle is sharp and catching on the winder wall or the wall has a rough spot and is snagging the bridle. 

[GuyMontag]

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

That's so weird. Maybe the bridle is sharp and catching on the winder wall or the wall has a rough spot and is snagging the bridle. 

It is the first time I've used the size 7 winder. I just checked the winder wall under the scope and it looks smooth with nothing to catch or snag the bridle. BTW, does that bridle look long/odd for a manual wind watch?

 

My last attempt ended up breaking off the bridle so I decided to order a new mainspring. There doesn't seem to be a lot of agreement on the interwebs about the correct mainspring for the Longines 280 family.  It comes in both a "normal" and T-end version and mine is the normal variant. Most seem to reference a 12mm barrel but mine is 11mm. My measurements led me to the 1.10 x .13 x 360 x 11 Non-Automatic (GR2672). We'll see.

Are there any material shops in the US that you can order a mainspring by the GR number? I ended up ordering from Cousins as I couldn't find any.

[HectorLooi]

If you have an ortho spot welder, you can spot weld the broken off bridle to the mainspring.

It looks like someone modified an automatic mainspring by cutting off the rounded end.

BTW, you don't need to wind the entire spring into the winder. You can actually leave the tail hanging out 

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Are there any material shops in the US that you can order a mainspring by the GR number? I ended up ordering from Cousins as I couldn't find any.

There are but not directly. If you notice on some of the websites are actually make reference to the GR mainspring but usually they have a reference to another number because they sell under a different numbering scheme I've noticed occasionally some of my pocket watch spring as he opened up the paper envelope marked with a variety of other companies sometimes the GR numbers are on the packages inside. But as far as a place that lists them what cousins in the US I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist just haven't seen it

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

BTW, you don't need to wind the entire spring into the winder. You can actually leave the tail hanging out 

This is something I do a pocket watch springs all the time as their unique or special ends have to be hooked before I can push the spring out. So something like this that looked may be problematic at least after the fact you didn't have the wind it all inside you could a left it out and then put that in the first followed by the winder and then the whole things ejected out.

Oh and where is the handle? Not the handle for winding the spring but usually the entire winder goes into a handle which allows you to hold it easier?

[oldhippy]

If you have ordered a new spring why don't you just press it into the barrel?

[GuyMontag]

12 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

If you have an ortho spot welder, you can spot weld the broken off bridle to the mainspring.

It looks like someone modified an automatic mainspring by cutting off the rounded end.

BTW, you don't need to wind the entire spring into the winder. You can actually leave the tail hanging out 

I do have the ability to spot weld but in addition to breaking off the bridle the spring was also distorted. It's a fairly nice watch so I figured I'd just put in a new mainspring.

After that third failed attempt I considered just putting it in the barrel with the end handing out, but I couldn't' wrap my head around whether or not the part that was hanging out was in the correct orientation. It seemed like it should have been pointing away from me not towards me so I wasn't confident that it was orientated correctly.

 

6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

Oh and where is the handle? Not the handle for winding the spring but usually the entire winder goes into a handle which allows you to hold it easier?

I find it easier to hold without the handle so I don't usually have it attached when winding in the spring.

 

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

If you have ordered a new spring why don't you just press it into the barrel?

I will once it arrives. Assuming, unlike the last spring I ordered, it doesn't need to be cleaned first.

[HectorLooi]

I watched the video again and I think I know what happened. 

The bridle is so long that it made a complete round in the winder barrel, then the end came out through the opening from the opposite side. 

[GuyMontag]

49 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

I watched the video again and I think I know what happened. 

The bridle is so long that it made a complete round in the winder barrel, then the end came out through the opening from the opposite side. 

Oh, wow, I think you are right. Dang, I really could have just put it in the barrel at that point and saved myself the headache of ordering a new spring.

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

Assuming, unlike the last spring I ordered, it doesn't need to be cleaned first.

Why did the last spring need to be cleaned?

2 hours ago, GuyMontag said:

I find it easier to hold without the handle so I don't usually have it attached when winding in the spring.

Interesting is probably the way each of us is holding I wouldn't think of using the winder without the handle.

[GuyMontag]

18 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Why did the last spring need to be cleaned?

I ordered a mainspring for an FHF 324 from Jules Borel and it came in an unsealed container that was much larger than the barrel.

 

[JohnR725]

49 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I ordered a mainspring for an FHF 324 from Jules Borel and it came in an unsealed container that was much larger than the barrel.

It still may not need to be cleaned. That's an older style packaging. There is currently a ongoing crisis of well everything in horology to be honest. Several years ago There is a crisis of mainsprings where the mainspring companies or in this case probably just one company has decided they would no longer make replacement mainsprings for stuff they just don't have to. So basically the companies are only going to make things for active production if you look at they GR mainspring book go to the back section of mainsprings by number or basically by size and figure out approximately how many mainsprings to see per page and how many pages and how many mainsprings they would have to stock to stock every single vintage mainspring the catalog once had it looking at a heck of a lot of mainsprings and then some of these mainsprings how often do they ever get ordered?

So simplistically the package you have is because they ran out of modern mainsprings and is now using whatever they have in stock at some point in time instead of having that you will have nothing

Oh and since are missing the outer package possibly a lot of times they will say there prelubricated or they never need lubrication or hysterically funny they will never set whenever break like that never happens.

[GuyMontag]

I figured since I had to wind the mainspring into my winder and the mainspring was decades old I might as well clean it since everything else was going to be cleaned anyways.