Polishing your pivot

[Murks]

Hi everyone have a question is there a tool a could use to polish my pivots arbor a seen a video on YouTube ta watch repairer using a tool called galaxy pro pivot polisher where can I get this what other tools could I use instead?

[RichardHarris123]

Sorry, very childish but I couldn't help laughing at " polishing your pivot".

[Murks]

Sorry but I meant cleaning to the standard for a better amplitude 

[LittleWatchShop]

"polishing your pivot," "sharpening your pegwood..."  Where are we going here??

Back to the GalaxyPro.  I looked it up.  Interesting.  I would be concerned by the registration of the "claw" that holds the wheel.  Perhaps the pivot polishing tube holds things in place. 

The "motor" is a tool that I have but under a different name.  I use it all the time at my lathe bench.  It is a quick way to do coarse cutoff or coarse grinding.  Better than a Dremel for that purpose.  However, it does vibrate, so having it on the pivot polisher could be problematic.

---------

I went back to the website and watched the video.  The claw is on the stationary side.  I am not so worried about registration. I think it could work.  I did see some vibration in the motor, so that is a minor concern.

Here is the rotary tool on ebay.  I highly recommend.

Edited June 22, 2023 by LittleWatchShop

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, Murks said:

galaxy pro pivot polisher

You mean this tool?

https://pivotpolisher.com/

2 hours ago, Murks said:

but I meant cleaning to the standard for a better amplitude 

Is there a standard that things should be clean to?

2 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Where are we going here?

What's going on here did you look at the website did you look at where the company is from Texas and then you're asking what's going on here? A product by the clever people of Texas maybe you should pay them a visit it would be worth a laugh.

 

Oh I see on their website gets undergoing revisions for three weeks of deer I wonder what that means? To me it looks like an accident waiting to happen tool but what do I know I see that they're getting a thumbs-up from a famous YouTube personality somewhere towards the bottom of the page.

So fortunately for you the tool is not available. But there's a reference to what they're using for polishing which they call  EveFlex soft silicon polishing pin, 3mm diameter, extra-fine grit. Somewhere on this discussion group I've seen references to people using something either this exact product or something just like this but no idea where I saw it on the group just as someone was using an abrasive rubber type compound to clean the pivots which is basically what this Is.

[LittleWatchShop]

14 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

What's going on here

Refers to the double entendre. (both of them) LOL

14 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

company is from Texas

Yes, I saw that...three hours away on a good day.  Texas is BIG, you know.

14 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Texas maybe you should pay them a visit it would be worth a laugh.

There are stupider ideas in this world.  This one does not rank at the bottom.

14 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

EveFlex soft silicon polishing pin

I bought some of this stuff (maybe a different brand) and have used it once.  Based on a brief experience, it seemed to work.

------

I have a Jacot with a DIY motor drive so that I dont have to use the bow.  Still must be VERY careful.  I also use a lathe.  Today, I chucked up a balance wheel in a Levin step chuck on a Levin lathe and polished some pivots.  At the end of the day, I think the Jacot will do a better job if you develop the necessary skill to use it.

Edited June 22, 2023 by LittleWatchShop

[Neverenoughwatches]

28 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

To me it looks like an accident waiting to happen tool but what do I know.

An accident a bit like a bent pivot and throwing a wheel across the room ? I also have a few of these pin polishers and have just started to use them fitted into the end of a screwdriver . I thought about putting the pinpolisher directly into a Dremel and feeding the pivot into that and then thought thats an accident waiting to happen . 

3 hours ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Sorry, very childish but I couldn't help laughing at " polishing your pivot".

We all know what you get up to now on Thursday evenings Mr. Pivot polisher.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Neverenoughwatches
Added more drama for effect.

[JohnR725]

17 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

At the end of the day, I think the Jacot will do a better job if you develop the necessary skill to use it.

A very long time ago I had an old time watchmaker show me how to use the Jacot Tool. He produced the absolutely most perfect black polish on the balance pivot I'd ever seen. But he also had a warning to be good with the tool you have to practice because you're going to break pivots or possibly I'm guessing destroy pivots until you learn how to properly use your tool. But if you practice every single day with your tool it's what is designed for his polishing pivots so it should work just fine.

5 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I also have a few of these pin polishers and have just started to use them fitted into the end of a screwdriver . I thought about putting the pinpolisher directly into a Dremel and feeding the pivot into that and then thought thats an accident waiting to happen

We need the link to the discussion of using these some more on the group. I can't remember if the person held in a pin vice or whether they were doing something that was spinning faster.

20 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

it seemed to work

The question is is this something we should do for every single pivot or just the really bad ones?

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, JohnR725 said:

We need the link to the discussion of using these some more on the group. I can't remember if the person held in a pin vice or whether they were doing something that was spinning faster.

Its possible that was me maybe a year or so ago, i do remember suggesting it but never actually tried it. I think my idea was shot down in flames .

43 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

A very long time ago I had an old time watchmaker show me how to use the Jacot Tool. He produced the absolutely most perfect black polish on the balance pivot I'd ever seen. But he also had a warning to be good with the tool you have to practice because you're going to break pivots or possibly I'm guessing destroy pivots until you learn how to properly use your tool. But if you practice every single day with your tool it's what is designed for his polishing pivots so it should work just fine.

We need the link to the discussion of using these some more on the group. I can't remember if the person held in a pin vice or whether they were doing something that was spinning faster.

The question is is this something we should do for every single pivot or just the really bad ones?

Experiment over. Yep pretty much as expected an accident waiting to happen . One 2mm extra fine pinpolisher set into a dremel at the lowest speed of 500 rpm ground off 3 pivots in a short space of time. In a pin vice its more of a controllable environment . Not a waste of time though as it shows up a flaw in the design of the Galaxy pin polisher. The workpiece should be spinning and not the pinpolisher. Only a tiny portion of the pinpolisher can be used in this way, the very center of it. Once you have a hole in the pin polisher that section then becomes unusable and has to be trimmed off so needing a good supply of pin polishers and wasting time constantly trimming. If the workpiece is spinning then the polisher can be used all about its surface. So pinpolishers are ok but Galaxy pin polishing machine, sorry Alex but poor design imho .

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

The question is is this something we should do for every single pivot or just the really bad ones?

OK, I will see about doing some experiments and report to the forum.  BTW, the ones I bought came with a little pin vise.  But, they are easy enough to chuck into a lathe collet.

[VWatchie]

Based on my personal experience of EveFlex I'd say the machine linked to in this thread is not only unnecessary but would risk damaging pivots even when it's working as intended. I use soft fine grit EveFlex in a pin vice made for EveFlex sold by Cousins to clean pivots. However, EveFlex is abrasive (yes even the soft fine grit) so if you go for too long even when doing it by hand, it will deform the pivot into a tapered shape. So, only a Jacot tool can safely restore a deformed or scored pivot. However, for cleaning EveFlex is excellent as long as only the soft fine grit is used and not for too long.

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

8 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Based on my personal experience of EveFlex I'd say the machine linked to in this thread is not only unnecessary but would risk damaging pivots even when it's working as intended. I use soft fine grit EveFlex in a pin vice made for EveFlex sold by Cousins to clean pivots. However, EveFlex is abrasive (yes even the soft fine grit) so if you go for too long even when doing it by hand, it will deform the pivot into a tapered shape. So, only a Jacot tool can safely restore a deformed or scored pivot. However, for cleaning EveFlex is excellent as long as only the soft fine grit is used and not for too long.

 

Yes i thought we'd talked about it some time ago. And yes  Watchie i would say it is overkill to put the pin polishers into something motorised. As mentioned up above i tried it in a dremel, ok  not the most precision of tools but it more or less answered the question of it being a bad idea of using them that way.  It also renders the pins as impractical, using them in a pin vice and introducing them by hand to spinning work is a far better application of them.

[VWatchie]

On 6/22/2023 at 11:44 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

So pinpolishers are ok but Galaxy pin polishing machine, sorry Alex but poor design imho .

I was surprised to see him endorse it, and I was surprised by the statement "Even after using a Jacot lathe, your machine adds that final touch." I just don't understand that sentence. What "final touch?" After burnishing and cleaning the pivot is as perfect as it can be, and if not, something must have gone wrong.

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

using them in a pin vice and introducing them by hand to spinning work is a far better application of them.

Couldn't agree more, and then, as you observe, we can use a much larger area of the polisher.

On 6/22/2023 at 11:44 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Only a tiny portion of the pinpolisher can be used in this way, the very center of it. Once you have a hole in the pin polisher that section then becomes unusable and has to be trimmed off so needing a good supply of pin polishers and wasting time constantly trimming.

The pin polishers are about £0.5 each (including tax and shipping) so not really expensive but just using the centre of it would be a serious waste, not to mention the time required to remove them, cut them, and reinstall them.

Edited June 26, 2023 by VWatchie

[Neverenoughwatches]

14 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I was surprised to see him endorse it.

Me too, thats if he actually did, but when money is involved good ethics can take a back seat unfortunately. I part watch a video by the horology biology guy talking about some new idea for polishing pivots. I must look for it , it may have been the same idea as the Galaxy pivot polisher.I really dont think the design was  very well thought out.

19 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Me too, thats if he actually did, but when money is involved good ethics can take a back seat unfortunately. I part watch a video by the horology biology guy talking about some new idea for polishing pivots. I must look for it , it may have been the same idea as the Galaxy pivot polisher.I really dont think the design was  very well thought 

Found the video. Apparently the tool is under revision. At the end of the video some issue occurs with mounting the wheel followed by some swearing haha. 

[tomh207]

5 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Me too, thats if he actually did, but when money is involved good ethics can take a back seat unfortunately. I part watch a video by the horology biology guy talking about some new idea for polishing pivots. I must look for it , it may have been the same idea as the Galaxy pivot polisher.I really dont think the design was  very well thought out.

Found the video. Apparently the tool is under revision. At the end of the video some issue occurs with mounting the wheel followed by some swearing haha. 

Yeah, I had a bit of toing and froing with Matt on that one about it not being a good idea, not to mention expensive for a pivot destroyer. I have one of those jewel pickers when I was still doing custom keyboards, not the most robust device for alignment. The components are all cheap and it is definitely not worth the $200+ price unless you are selling new staffs to replace the ones that are going to get screwed up.

 

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Yeah, I had a bit of toing and froing with Matt on that one about it not being a good idea, not to mention expensive for a pivot destroyer. I have one of those jewel pickers when I was still doing custom keyboards, not the most robust device for alignment. The components are all cheap and it is definitely not worth the $200+ price unless you are selling new staffs to replace the ones that are going to get screwed up.

 

 

Tom

Ah ok, so you're still on the fence about it then

2 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Yeah, I had a bit of toing and froing with Matt on that one about it not being a good idea, not to mention expensive for a pivot destroyer. I have one of those jewel pickers when I was still doing custom keyboards, not the most robust device for alignment. The components are all cheap and it is definitely not worth the $200+ price unless you are selling new staffs to replace the ones that are going to get screwed up.

 

 

Tom

How i see it and what isn't mention in any video is once the pivot has made its way into the pin then the polishing has about gone as far as it can go.  To do more polishing you then need to make another hole.

[tomh207]

55 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Ah ok, so you're still on the fence about it then

How i see it and what isn't mention in any video is once the pivot has made its way into the pin then the polishing has about gone as far as it can go.  To do more polishing you then need to make another hole.

As far as I am concerned Rich this is not a precise science, we all have a different way to achieve the same thing and strive for excellence as best we can. Stuff like this only encourages people to take shortcuts when they don’t know better, it is sad. Personally I am disappointed in this being promoted by who I think are good folks and leading others astray.

 

Tom

[Neverenoughwatches]

31 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

As far as I am concerned Rich this is not a precise science, we all have a different way to achieve the same thing and strive for excellence as best we can. Stuff like this only encourages people to take shortcuts when they don’t know better, it is sad. Personally I am disappointed in this being promoted by who I think are good folks and leading others astray.

 

Tom

I'm all for trying new ideas, but it has to be an idea of substance, just not a money making gimmick that has nothing to teach please.