Rolex 2135 not self winding very well...

[hayesbd]

Hello, all!  I'm new to these forums, but I am an experienced amateur (been doing some semi-professional work for over 10 years).  I currently have a real stumper with a Rolex 2135.  The original problem when the watch was given to me for repair was a broken rotor axle, a pretty straightforward repair.  However, even though it's all fixed now (first with a replacement axle that was slightly looser than I prefer and then with a genuine Rolex complete rotor assembly), the watch will not self wind on the wrist very well.  It works just fine starting from a run down mainspring, but won't wind up enough on its own.  Hand-wound power reserve was 44 hours and I cannot find any hint of interference with the rotor to the case.  Does anyone have any similar experience with this movement?  I've serviced a few of these and had no similar problem.  The rotor spins as freely as any rotor I have ever seen.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian

[clockboy]

Welcome to the forum, enjoy. The Rolex automatic system needs servicing lubricating and treating with Epilame. However that presumes there is no wear. Basically the watch needs a service. 

[ManSkirtBrew]

I recently did a full service on a 2135, and learned a lot about those automatic works and how sensitive they are to proper lubrication.

Lots of good info in the thread here.

[RichardHarris123]

Hello and welcome. 

[hayesbd]

4 hours ago, ManSkirtBrew said:

I recently did a full service on a 2135, and learned a lot about those automatic works and how sensitive they are to proper lubrication.

Lots of good info in the thread here.

Thanks for the reply.  I have seen the thread you cited, and as I mentioned, this is not a new movement to me.  I realize the care needed for reversers as well.  The potential epilame issue is not in play in this case since I have properly lubricated the self winding assembly and there is no spread of oil onto the reversers.

[Nucejoe]

 Seems to me, you have replaced worn parts but have not spotted what casued the wear in the first place. 

 Mark offers a course on fault finding, which if doesn't make you a master repairman , it at least get this point accross that there is such a thing called diagnostics or fault finding in watch repair.

I would check every jewel/ hole/ gear/ pinion leave/ reverser/ barrel/ ratchet wheel/ barrl arbour etc  is winder module.

Good luck 

 

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, hayesbd said:

The potential epilame issue is not in play in this case since I have properly lubricated the self winding assembly and there is no spread of oil onto the reversers.

I find your wording interesting here. Did you use epilam or the equivalent? then by properly oiling you mean no oil on anything of the reversers other than center axle which is why the epilam is there to keep Lubrication from spreading outwards.

12 hours ago, hayesbd said:

the watch will not self wind on the wrist very well.

one of the problems and watch repair is what is the problem when you fix the broken rotor axle was this problem there before and without the rotor there was no way to tell. So we don't know if it's a new problem or an old problem.

Do you have the service manual Rolex has all sorts of specifications for end shake your supposed to check including on the automatic mechanism so have you verified that there within specification

oh and one other little thing do not assume when the Rolex caravan that everything was right. A lot of times people of worked on the watch before you didn't have a service manual and didn't seem to grasp how things were supposed to be which is why the service manual goes and exacting specifications to everything to put it back where it's supposed to be. So the old saying and watch repair it left the factory running it must build a run now doesn't entirely apply if other people of service did with no idea at all what they're doing C may be dealing with somebody else's problem that you've inherited.

 

[hayesbd]

17 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I find your wording interesting here. Did you use epilam or the equivalent? then by properly oiling you mean no oil on anything of the reversers other than center axle which is why the epilam is there to keep Lubrication from spreading outwards.

one of the problems and watch repair is what is the problem when you fix the broken rotor axle was this problem there before and without the rotor there was no way to tell. So we don't know if it's a new problem or an old problem.

Do you have the service manual Rolex has all sorts of specifications for end shake your supposed to check including on the automatic mechanism so have you verified that there within specification

oh and one other little thing do not assume when the Rolex caravan that everything was right. A lot of times people of worked on the watch before you didn't have a service manual and didn't seem to grasp how things were supposed to be which is why the service manual goes and exacting specifications to everything to put it back where it's supposed to be. So the old saying and watch repair it left the factory running it must build a run now doesn't entirely apply if other people of service did with no idea at all what they're doing C may be dealing with somebody else's problem that you've inherited.

 

Yes, I have no oil anywhere it is not supposed to be and epilame has been applied.  More importantly, I can confirm that the reversers are correctly working, which is what all the fuss about epilame and proper lubrication is about (in the long term).  I was wondering if anyone else has experienced anything with this specific movement that could help explain things or offer any particular testing to confirm things.  For example, I was thinking about using an amplified audio of the cased watch to determine if there is any rubbing on the case.  These movements self-wind so quietly, it's hard to hear, at least with my ancient ears.

[JohnR725]

13 hours ago, hayesbd said:

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced anything with this specific movement that could help explain things or offer any particular testing to confirm things.

the problem is were not exactly a Rolex discussion group. There are people that have worked on Rolex watches but I don't think there's anyone here that's worked on enough of them to know all the problems that Rolex has. For instance if you have the service manual for this watch it does specify all of the things like the end shake which is why asked if you already check the. It also talks about the epilam and the oiling which is a common mistake for some people thinking there supposed to be oiling something they're not. Yes I did read that you're a professional watchmaker almost. but the problem with the Rolex service manual is it's missing information lots of information. That's because there should be supplemental information the service manuals were printed a number of years ago and they somehow have managed to escape Rolexes grasp. My understanding is that if you're a service center and new manuals are issued in the days of printed manuals all the old ones had to go back. Nowadays of course they're all online there's no copies nobody gets to ever see them but there should be supplemental information for vintage Rolex watches probably in Geneva where we will never see it.

13 hours ago, hayesbd said:

For example, I was thinking about using an amplified audio of the cased watch to determine if there is any rubbing on the case.

some of the timing machines like witschi for instance typically has audio out. Chinese machines unfortunately do not not without modifications. some of the software-based machines that run on a PC for instance can have audio out but you still need the microphone and the amplifier. Which means you might as well just do it clock people do get there clock amplifier. The first link is to the company in the second link is to the amplifier if you already had an amplifier somewhere you can usually buy a microphone for about $20

https://adamsbrown.com/wordpress1/timetrax-timers/

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234319971856

 

 

[hayesbd]

Hello again, all!  Thanks for the help.  I seem to have sorted things out now and I think the demagnetizing of the reversers is what did the trick.  I first checked for magnetism on just the reverser parts and found a slight bit present. I demagnetized again and now after recleaning/lubricating/assembling, I believe I noticed that even though the reversers had apparently worked "properly" before, this time they seems to engage more quickly and I think that's what solved the issue.  I've never seen a design quite so sensitive to magnetized parts and the difference in observation of function was very subtle indeed.  

Thanks again and I hope this experience may help someone in the future.

Regards,

Brian