Requesting advice on Ansonia 1882 5-pillar:

[KarlvonKoln]

A watch collector I work for gave me this Ansonia as a thank-you gift (in addition to paying me!) which he found at an estate sale some while back.  He warned that it would need service if I wanted to restore.  If not, he said the parts may be useful. 

I would like to restore it if possible.  Here is what little I know - it is stamped as an Ansonia, from New York, patented June 13, 1882, the movement design seems to be called "5-pillar" and I can see why, the chime spring and arbor and some related parts are very obviously missing entirely, all chime train pivots wiggle in their holes way too much for them to not need bushings, the going train pivot holes are either perfectly fine or were recently bushed and there is no wiggle, case needs work and cleaning, only *some* of my watch knowledge helps with clocks, "8 3/4" is likely the pendulum length, and the whole thing will need a good cleaning and oiling (time to get more Windles) and probably also adjusting.

But the going side does RUN!!!  YAY!

So I now have questions: I have never sought parts sources for Ansonia before. Can anyone recomment some merchants?  And the decoration on the door's glass - is there a method for restoring?  Or can replacement be found?  I will be checking Ebay, but if anyone knows of better sources for better parts, I will be wholeheartedly grateful for the suggestion! 

Edited May 6, 2023 by KarlvonKoln

[HectorLooi]

Welcome to the clock world, Karl. I just did my first American clock movement, a Waterbury, and it was a nightmare. 

While researching the Waterbury, I found several YouTube videos on Ansonia, which looked very similar to yours.

I also found that Etsy had a surprising amount of vintage clock parts. Timesavers also carries a lot of clock parts.

I learnt a lot about the Brocot escapement from a YouTube channel called Born Again Clocks. They also run an online watch and clock repair course called learntimeonline. And check out their webpage.

https://learntimeonline.com/silver-senior-landing/

They are providing free training to seniors above 55!

I'm considering signing up.

[KarlvonKoln]

Timesavers!  I nearly forgot about them!  I will be looking there first.

LearnTimeOnline, you say?  I may need to check them out as well.

[oldhippy]

Could you take the movement out of its case and take clear photos of the works, a photo of the complete back plate, remove the dial and a photo of the front plate. As you live in America it will not be difficult to get replacement parts.  

[HectorLooi]

I believe this is a similar movement except the pendulum is longer and teeth count might be different.

 

[oldhippy]

HectorLooi, I know all about these movements the reason I need to see it is KarlvonKoln has said parts are missing so I need to see which parts. The movement in the video is probably the same but the pendulum is very different 

Edited May 7, 2023 by oldhippy

[KarlvonKoln]

5 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Could you take the movement out of its case and take clear photos of the works, a photo of the complete back plate, remove the dial and a photo of the front plate. As you live in America it will not be difficult to get replacement parts.  

Thank you for responding, OH.  I will take the pictures today and post them here.
This old Ansonia is not built like the Linden I have, or like the German-made Hamilton.  The pendulum is behind the dial, and it has a U-shaped crook in it so it swings around the center arbor.  And there are no barrels holding the springs in!  It's like they're out to get me.  I will definitely not forget to let down the power.
As to missing parts, I know the chime spring and arbor and likely a ratchet and another wheel are missing.  the pictures may present a clue of what else has been taken out of the clock.  I will be taking detailed pictures from different angles.  But first, I shall have some coffee and break fast.  It is early here, and I was awakened by a wicked thunderstorm.  If I have a power cut here, I will just post with my smart phone.

I was watching the video, and I see that creating new bushings will not be very hard.  Given the larger scale, this will be easier than if I had to do it for a watch.  The video is very useful, @HectorLooi, and I am seeing all the little problematic things that I will want to watch for, as I work on this.  I am also seeing how the layout of this American clock is quite different from the European and English clocks.  I do like this Astonia very much; it was a nice gift, but for working upon I think I may prefer European and English.  
Pictures forthcoming.

[KarlvonKoln]

Just posting a couple pics for reference.  Then I have to get back to the clock and other business.

First pic.  Dial side of movement. 

Second picture is of missing chime spring and related components: 

Third picture is of back of movement: 

Fourth picture looking in toward center arbor to see how chimes are tripped and see if this looks right?  These parts seem worn, and position seems off maybe?

Fifth picture.  There is a little steel lever (the lift lever maybe) that is behind the wheel to the right and does not engage anything.  It should trigger the chimes, but in its present position it does not appear to contact any other part at its end.

Sixth picture, also of lever from fifth picture. 

Seventh and last new picture.  The teeth of the mainspring wheel are worn enough on one side that I know I will need to replace, or disassemble and flip the wheel over.  And I will need to inspect trunions on the lantern pinions too.  I will be inspecting everything anyway when I disassemble. 

I was wrong.  One more.  I think the escapement looks good.

[KarlvonKoln]

@oldhippy, let me know if the above pics help.  I'm am trying to find the names of all the missing parts.  Well, I am also trying to see what all is missing.  I suppose my remaining questions are:
- Should I be looking for a donor movement, or will certain supply houses have what I need?  I prefer that donor movements obtained from auction be my last resort.
- With the main drive wheel, how well does it work to remove, flip it over, and re-drill the ratchet holes, and then rivet it back on?  I think, if I get a donor movement, I will check the condition of that drive wheel first.
- Are you able to see, and tell me, all the parts that are missing?  I think I may know, just through extrapolation, but one who has worked on clocks much more than myself may see something I am missing.
- Oh - one last question: Should there be a somewhat deep groove in the blade of the count lever?  Mine has that, and I wondered if it was a feature, or simply wear?  I am looking for pictures of these movements where they zoom in on things like that.  American clocks look strange to my eyes.

[oldhippy]

Looks like you are missing the complete wheel  for the strike side and the spring. You should be able to find a replacement. You need to measure the going side one including the arbor size that is where the key fits on, teeth count (how many) the size of both holes and the complete length of the arbor from end to end.  Ansonia movement are very popular even here in England. From your photos I can't see any more so it looks as if the rest is all there.  

[watchweasol]

Hi Karl. A man to look up David La Bounty.  AWCI OR NAWCC. He seems to be well versed in the Ansonia clock world,   I have read and used his advice.  Setting up the J levers and count wires.  I three clocks using that type of movement.. as Old Hippy said strike wheel and spring missing,   I have a scrap movement should you find the hard to find.  They were a common clock used in many. “ Gingerbread” kitchen clocks.   You will also need a set of mainspring clamps or what I do is wind up the spring and wire it before separating the plates.