Jump to content

Flat surfaces of watch covered in oil.

signcarver
 Share

Recommended Posts

signcarver WRT Addict

signcarver

Posted
Posted

In another post i mentioned that i had a beautiful Waltham 1883 pocket watch. I don't know its history other than someone in the family owned it.

I disassembled the watch and found an interesting phenomenon. The flat surface of the barrel and barrel lid were covered in wet oil. Also, some other places where two plates were fit together, such as the balance and the main plate, had the same wet oil coating. What would you be oiling there other than the top and bottom jewels? I didn't see oil on any components, such as the jewels or pinions, though. 

I have taken Mark's courses, but i am brand new to watchmaking. Is this is a common occurrence. I was surprised that after so many years there would be so much wet oil in, what seemed to me, odd places.

Thanks for reading.

F1BFE56D-C4B0-4D88-9136-C8EEB0060EF2_1_105_c.thumb.jpeg.25c00ce254cf56110ee69d7681986c3a.jpeg

grsnovi Distinguished Member

grsnovi

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, signcarver said:

Is this is a common occurrence

I don't have enough experience with old pocket watches however on the three or four that I've opened, they have not been as you've described.

  • Like 1
thor447 WRT Addict

thor447

Posted
Posted

I've got one I'm working on right now that was the same way.  The cover plate on the back side of the automatic winding works, between the plates in the day wheel jumper, and all over the keyless works.  There was a film of oil between all of the parts.

  • Like 1
mikepilk Distinguished Member

mikepilk

Posted
Posted

Oil will tend to spread out. Which is why epilame is used in certain situations. 

It is common to put a little oil on the installed spring and flat barrel surfaces.

Beginners usually over-oil (I did) - just a little extra to make sure!

I have come across movements which seem to have been dipped in oil. This is usually caused by over-oiled jewels, springs, keyless etc, and it just spreads out everywhere.

 

  • Like 1
jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, signcarver said:

I was surprised that after so many years there would be so much wet oil

Oil doesn't dry. The person that handle thus watch did "fir service" did a very poor job, even many decades ago that was pretty normal. You never known what you can find in a watch, there is much, much worse than that. 

  • Like 1
signcarver WRT Addict

signcarver

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, jdm said:

Oil doesn't dry.

I did not know that. Thanks jdm.

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

You will find a wealth of information in many previous discussions on this and other subjects through the search function.

Regds

I'll keep that in mind for my next post. Thanks Nucejoe.

Shane WRT Addict

Shane

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, jdm said:
9 hours ago, signcarver said:

I was surprised that after so many years there would be so much wet oil

Oil doesn't dry.

Oils, or at least most organically derived oil do dry, persay.  It's more like they turn into an organic plastic or polymerizes.  It has to do with that oil's ability to uptake halogens from the atmosphere surrounding it.  This is know as that oil's iodine value or how unsaturated the oil is.  The iodine value also allows you to estimate an oil's density and it's viscosity at a given temperature.  It also suggests how suitable an oil will be for any given purpose while at different temperatures and for how long.  The higher an oil's iodine value, the more susceptibility to oxidation that oil will be.  This is how oil paint works and why butter goes bad without refrigeration.  It's also how you season cast iron cookware and why we use certain oils for high temperature deepfrying/cooking.  Different oils are good or bad at performing different functions.

Now I'm hungry thinking about my wife's cast iron cookware and what she can cook/bake with them.  I'm thinking buttered corn muffins.... 🤤

Conversely, I'm under the impression, petrochemical and synthetics oils are more likely to have their move volitale constituents evaporate, causing them to thicken over time, then to oxidize.  Whichever way, within a sealed watch the oil may have a problem doing either... quickly.

Food for thought, pun intended.

Shane 

Edited by Shane
  • Like 1
jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Shane said:

Oils, or at least most organically derived oil do dry, persay. 

I speak from experience. I have opened watches and other objects which had not been ouched for easily 50, ot 60 years and found "wet" oil, it could have been little or more, but was there. I guess it wasn't aware of its own chemicals characteristics.

Edited by jdm
  • Like 1
JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Oil will tend to spread out. Which is why epilame is used in certain situations

Unfortunately when they made American pocket watches epilam didn't exist yet.

6 hours ago, Shane said:

Oils, or at least most organically derived oil do dry, persay.

One other thing is you don't know about him pocket watches is when was the last serviced hundred years ago or five years ago you don't know typically. If it's really old organic oil it does take on a interesting smell or at least it can. Although those watches are getting farther and farther apart. In other words organic substances ago bad with time don't always smell pleasant

sometimes the lubrication in the mainspring barrel will leak out all over the place of something was careful. There are other methods of lubrication we end up with that all over every place. I was very popular over a period of time will skip over how that works says it's a thing of the past but basically ended up with oil every place.

But yes it's usually comment on older watches and oil leaks out all over every place or at least it is every place.

  • Thanks 1
  • 2 weeks later...
Shane WRT Addict

Shane

Posted
Posted
On 8/5/2022 at 10:48 PM, jdm said:

I speak from experience. I have opened watches and other objects which had not been ouched for easily 50, ot 60 years and found "wet" oil, it could have been little or more, but was there. I guess it wasn't aware of its own chemicals characteristics.

Your observations are totally valid and I'm sure they are shared by the majority of us here.  I'm not saying that all organic oils dry at the same rate and I'm sure they chose the oil that gave the best results at the time.  Refining and blending the base oil stock alos improved those oil's ability to resist oxidation.  I also suggests that the process would be hampered while inside of a sealed or semi sealed watch case.  I was just speaking to the assertion that "oil doesn't dry".

There had to be some reason to send me into the sea to hunt whales or die trying.

Shane 

  • Like 1

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • TimeWerks
      Omega sweep second pinion friction spring - correct tension IS important

      By TimeWerks · Posted

      Thanks for this post MikePilk, I just came across a similar problem with an Omega 1022.  The problem I had was the seconds pinion spring was bent out of shape and did not even engage with the wheel properly, so the seconds hand was not moving at all. (no power loss though :) I removed the automatic module so I could access the spring and work on it. Once I bent it back close to the right shape, I experienced the same problem you reported about power loss.  Many tweaks later, and the seconds hand is moving properly again, with amplitude back to good numbers again. Cheers
    • caseback
      Clock newbie

      By caseback · Posted

      After cleaning up the pivots, I made bushes on the lathe. At this point I've pressed in 6 bushes (3 sets) and the wheels turn smooth. What I can also tell you, is that I'm not looking forward to final assembly. Getting the pivots aligned seems to get exponentially more difficult with each wheel that is added.
    • JohnR725
      Greetings from Whidbey Island.

      By JohnR725 · Posted

      Islands are interesting places to live depending upon their size and other factors. This is a bigger island and it has a bridge to get there at least on one end. It's also big enough that you don't have to go someplace else to get things typically. It can be a problem if you get a job in Seattle though. Yes I've known of people who commuted from the island to Seattle for a job and I don't quite remember how many hours it took but it took a long time. So basically islands are nice if you don't have to leave very often.
    • VWatchie
      What's your thoughts on this Rolex Sea-Dweller, ref. 16600, calibre 3135 project?

      By VWatchie · Posted

      Thanks @JohnR725! Everything you say makes a lot of sense and is encouraging to read.
    • JohnR725
      What's your thoughts on this Rolex Sea-Dweller, ref. 16600, calibre 3135 project?

      By JohnR725 · Posted

      isn't it nice to have a decent case open or when the case doesn't want to be opened? In the case of a Rolex watch that supposed to pass specific water resistant testing you probably do need to tighten the back down. But they shouldn't be tightened so much that they risk stripping the threads out. Then the other problem that comes up is the gaskets can start to disintegrate and then getting the back off can be quite a challenge unless you have a really good tool and perhaps some penetrating oil to loosen things up. Yes really nice case marking. When I was in school we were taught to mark the cases and  the American watch and clockmakers Institute even had a? So if you joined at one time they would give you an identification number. They were explaining or giving an example of if the watches ever found in you have a unique number they can perhaps figure out the history of the watch or identify the body it's attached to for instance not that that probably comes up that often. So you got a unique number and even made a special metal stamp that you can purchase. It wasn't a super big aggressive stamp but still it left a mark in the back of the case. Then I heard from people at work on Rolex watches they were using a felt pen indelible but later on they decided that was bad because apparently the ink could release  chemicals although it seems like once it's dry that shouldn't be an issue. Then of course today was nice is you can keep computer records sealed have to mark anything at all I personally find it's best to leave no reference behind that you were even there. Especially when you have a beautiful watch that has no markings at all and now it has your scribbling all over it not good typically if there is a typical and watch repair?  a lot of minor repairs you don't need to do a complete servicing. But beyond a certain point you're going to have to take apart a lot of stuff you're going to disrupt the lubrication even if it looks perfect right now and yes you might as well just go ahead the service the whole thing. also in a watch like this where a lot of things seem to be going on the complete service would be better then you'll know exactly where you stand versus dealing with unknown mysteries for prior repair.
×
×
  • Create New...