What's the best way to repin the hairspring on a Timex?

[Ashket]

Well I've had a mishap, I tried to do the service according to the service manuals for once and while attempting to repin the hairspring, the brass pin flew off into the ether, never to be seen again. This was after a couple of hours trying to get it repinned. I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably never gonna try that again, but I thought I might as well ask if anyone has any tips that would make it easier in the future if I did attempt it. Thanks!

[Paul80]

I don't know if it's the same in the watch world but I have seen in the clock world that new tapered pins are much longer than needed making handling much easier, once fitted they are cut to length. I assume it will be the same for pins supplied for watches.  Provided they are available that is, otherwise it's a case of make new pins yourself and make them longer than needed to help with the installation. Not sure how you make them yourself unless you have a watchmakers lathe.

[HectorLooi]

Most people here will tell you to use a hammer and chisel.

But honestly, don't use a pair of tweezers to hold the pin. Instead, dab a bit of thick grease on the tip of an oiler or screwdriver and stick the end of the pin to it. Then carefully maneuver the tip over the stud hole and push it in. I learned this trick from @Nucejoe .

[watchweasol]

I Have a sticky wand uses for picking up small gemstones available in the HOBBIES shops in various sizes, very handy for small screws as well.

[Nucejoe]

3 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Most people here will tell you to use a hammer and chisel.

But honestly, don't use a pair of tweezers to hold the pin. Instead, dab a bit of thick grease on the tip of an oiler or screwdriver and stick the end of the pin to it. Then carefully maneuver the tip over the stud hole and push it in. I learned this trick from @Nucejoe .

Rodico might work just as well Doc.  I don't have rodico so am not sure if tiny piece of it  or previous  contamination on rodico can end up on H/S coil and how would clean if such a mess happens, but grease easily disloves in lighter fluid.

[JerseyMo]

I use tweezers with a cut out for the pin.

[Neverenoughwatches]

12 hours ago, Paul80 said:

I don't know if it's the same in the watch world but I have seen in the clock world that new tapered pins are much longer than needed making handling much easier, once fitted they are cut to length. I assume it will be the same for pins supplied for watches.  Provided they are available that is, otherwise it's a case of make new pins yourself and make them longer than needed to help with the installation. Not sure how you make them yourself unless you have a watchmakers lathe.

Cousins do sell hs pins. It is possible to fit them with fine tweezers.  It just takes a steady hand. Reduce one of the tips on your tweezer of choice, just slightly. Then when you have inserted the pin use the adapated tweezers with the longer end against the back of the stud and the shorter end against the pin and gently squeeze the pin into the hole. This was one of the first things i did when i started to learn watch repair it was on a small 453 Oris. If i can do it ashket , and im pretty clumsy sometimes then anyone can

Edited May 18, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[ChrisRobinson]

I thought the Timex instructions were to wash it in lighter fluid and put it back in the case?

But yeah, really tiny things are impossible to do with tweezers unless you are micro-man (a very tiny version of superman). 

I learned this with a stud screw for the hair spring on a HMT 0321 movement.   I cleaned the movement as per normal but I noticed a really tiny "clump" of dirt in the bottom of the tank.  I was about to wash it out but something was niggling at me that I should look a bit closer.  Sure enough, there was a really tiny screw in that clump.  Bugger.  I had no idea where it was from.  I thought some previous watchbreaker had dropped a random screw into the movement.

I couldn't figure out where the screw was from.  It was about 1/50 the size of any screw I had removed and everything was accounted for.  It wasn't until I had the movement to first test stage that I noticed that the balance spring stud was rocking back and forth in the balance cock in time with the balance.  Damn.  Glad I saved that speck of dirt and put in the parts tray.

Well, I could pick the minute screw up with the tweezers, and even place it in the hole it was supposed to go in. This thing was literally like a speck of dust and I'm still in shock a month later.  Even though it was placed in roughly the right position, I just could not get a screwdriver on it.  Every time I tried, it just fell out of the hole.

Eventually it fell out and I couldn't find it.  Damn I feel so inadequate.

Later on I watched a video where the watchmacker put the screw in a pin vice (must have been a *really* tiny pin vice) and used that to start the thread on that screw. 

Damn.  I don't have the tools, and I shake too much.  Almost makes you rethink your life choices.  Almost.

Edited May 19, 2022 by ChrisRobinson

[Nucejoe]

8 minutes ago, ChrisRobinson said:

impossible to do with tweezers unless you are micro-man (a very tiny version of superman). 

Haha ha ha ha ha ha   funnny.

[ChrisRobinson]

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Haha ha ha ha ha ha   funnny.

Yes, but sad as well.  I really wish I had the eyes and nerves I had thirty years ago.

[JerseyMo]

1 hour ago, ChrisRobinson said:

I thought the Timex instructions were to wash it in lighter fluid and put it back in the case?

Timex never gave any such instruction to use lighter fluid.  That is a home grown method and very over simplified. I use a multiple step process and is dependent on condition and type movement.  

 

[ChrisRobinson]

15 minutes ago, JerseyMo said:

Timex never gave any such instruction to use lighter fluid.  That is a home grown method and very over simplified. I use a multiple step process and is dependent on condition and type movement.  

 

Actually, they did.  This from the service manual for the 23 movement:

Quote

To clean the Timex Model 23, it is necessary to remove only the minute hand,  dial and balance. The illustrations on Pages 23.3 through 23 .5 shaw proper  procedures. Timex has found, through long and careful research, that the best  method of cleaning is with only the above-mentioned parts removed.

That was the advice given, in 1960 something.  The "cleaning fluid" was Naptha, lighter fluid.  These were watches you bought at convenience stores or the paper stand.  They were worth less new than a watchmaker would charge to service them.

So, it depends on what Timex you are talking about but the poster didn't say, hence my throw away comment.  Pre-quartz timex were a disposable that no watchmaker would consider working on.  Now of course, those same mechanical movements have a keen following.

There's a bunch of really old Timex manuals, including this one available here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-IKHN7WFKiwLVFQRjQyUUV0bmM?resourcekey=0-nzqewOfKSXbY8z5cFBWx7w&usp=sharing

A really awful URL but it still works, rather slowly. 

[JerseyMo]

4 hours ago, ChrisRobinson said:

Actually, they did.  This from the service manual for the 23 movement:

That was the advice given, in 1960 something.  The "cleaning fluid" was Naptha, lighter fluid.  These were watches you bought at convenience stores or the paper stand.  They were worth less new than a watchmaker would charge to service them.

So, it depends on what Timex you are talking about but the poster didn't say, hence my throw away comment.  Pre-quartz timex were a disposable that no watchmaker would consider working on.  Now of course, those same mechanical movements have a keen following.

There's a bunch of really old Timex manuals, including this one available here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-IKHN7WFKiwLVFQRjQyUUV0bmM?resourcekey=0-nzqewOfKSXbY8z5cFBWx7w&usp=sharing

A really awful URL but it still works, rather slowly. 

These are the instructions from the Tech manual. I see no mention of Naptha or lighter fluid.

 

[Ashket]

22 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Cousins do sell hs pins. It is possible to fit them with fine tweezers.  It just takes a steady hand. Reduce one of the tips on your tweezer of choice, just slightly. Then when you have inserted the pin use the adapated tweezers with the longer end against the back of the stud and the shorter end against the pin and gently squeeze the pin into the hole. This was one of the first things i did when i started to learn watch repair it was on a small 453 Oris. If i can do it ashket , and im pretty clumsy sometimes then anyone can

Okay, never thought to adapt a tweezer like that, that's a helpful tip (no pun intended lol). I'll have to check cousins out and get a few replacement pins.

[JerseyMo]

and again here are the instruction from the 1961 service manual - no mention of natpha or lighter fluid.

 

4 hours ago, ChrisRobinson said:

There's a bunch of really old Timex manuals, including this one available here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-IKHN7WFKiwLVFQRjQyUUV0bmM?resourcekey=0-nzqewOfKSXbY8z5cFBWx7w&usp=sharing

A really awful URL but it still works, rather slowly. 

you may find this site much more informative - https://heritage1854.com/

[Ashket]

3 minutes ago, JerseyMo said:

and again here are the instruction from the 1961 service manual - no mention of natpha or lighter fluid.

Hey JerseyMo what fluid would you recommend using, I have to admit to using ronsonol lighter fluid, then two rinses in 99% isopropyl alcohol as I understand there isn't any shellac in the movements. What should I change the lighter fluid to?

[JerseyMo]

ammonia, water rinse air\blow dry, lighter fluid, air\blow dry.  basics developed my the former members of the Vintage Timex Watch Forum which I was a core member of.    

Good luck with your repair. 

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, Ashket said:

Okay, never thought to adapt a tweezer like that, that's a helpful tip (no pun intended lol). I'll have to check cousins out and get a few replacement pins.

Tbh i didnt find it difficult to fit the pin and at the time i used an unadapted cheap pair of tweezers, as it was at the very start of my learning and was a case of a necessity and to just get the job  done.The thought to trim one tip down came later. It might be that I'm lucky as i have a very steady hand even at 55 yrs. I have a very healthy life style, i dont drink smoke or take drugs and my diet is bob on. So I'm sure that all this helps. Any hairspring work i will make sure my blood sugar level is steady, a drop there can really affect your hands on fine manipulation.

10 hours ago, ChrisRobinson said:

really tiny things are impossible to do with tweezers unless you are micro-man (a very tiny version of superman). 

Fine tweezers a fair microscope and a steady hand. Superman does the impossible, we can do what is possible.

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 5/19/2022 at 8:24 PM, JerseyMo said:

ammonia, water rinse air\blow dry, lighter fluid, air\blow dry.  basics developed my the former members of the Vintage Timex Watch Forum which I was a core member of.    

Good luck with your repair. 

 

I like the diver JM. I've come. across a couple on epay before. Juniors seem fairly common. What size and cal. is this one you have please matey ? Any chance you have a calibre list. I will check ranfft but i think you might have a more comprehensive list. Thank you

On 5/19/2022 at 8:00 PM, Ashket said:

Okay, never thought to adapt a tweezer like that, that's a helpful tip (no pun intended lol). I'll have to check cousins out and get a few replacement pins.

No problem matey.

[JerseyMo]

16 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I like the diver JM. I've come. across a couple on epay before. Juniors seem fairly common. What size and cal. is this one you have please matey ? Any chance you have a calibre list. I will check ranfft but i think you might have a more comprehensive list. Thank you

No problem matey.

No calibre list that I know of for vintage Timex.