Pegwood alternative

[ifibrin]

Does anyone have any idea of what other materials to use for holding bridges/ mainplate in position, other than pegwood? I saw in @Mark‘s latest video he is using some sort of plastic rod finished into a wedge shape, but I am unable to find any supply of this.

I have tried using acrylate rods, with the end shaped into a wedge shape, but it seems to discolor the plated finish of the bridges and mainplate; the parts of the bridge/mainplate which come into contact with the acrylate discolor after a few weeks. Does anyone have any idea what sort of plastic would be better? Bergeon and Horotec do sell polystyrene, or PEEK, plastic rods, but these are quite expensive, and may be a proprietary blend of plastic to avoid discoloration.

So far, only pegwood seems to work well. I did consider using plastic chopsticks (melamine resin) but I’m not sure if the melamine will react with the copper in brass... Brass rods could work as well, but may scratch the finishing if used the same way as pegwood.

Edited May 14, 2022 by ifibrin

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 minute ago, ifibrin said:

Does anyone have any idea of what other materials to use for holding bridges/ mainplate in position, other than pegwood? I saw in @Mark‘s latest video he is using some sort of plastic rod finished into a wedge shape, but I am unable to find any supply of this.

I have tried using acrylate rods, with the end shaped into a wedge shape, but it seems to discolor the plated finish of the bridges and mainplate; the parts of the bridge/mainplate which come into contact with the acrylate discolor after a few weeks. Does anyone have any idea what sort of plastic would be better? Bergeon and Horotec do sell polystyrene, or PEEK, plastic rods, but these are quite expensive...

So far, only pegwood seems to work well. 

Eyup ifibrin.  I have used pegwood, toothpicks, bamboo skewers and small 3mm plastic knitting needles

Just now, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup ifibrin.  I have used pegwood, toothpicks, bamboo skewers and small 3mm plastic knitting needles

You could also use carbon fibre rod

[ifibrin]

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup ifibrin.  I have used pegwood, toothpicks, bamboo skewers and small 3mm plastic knitting needles

Wood seems to work very well, but needs to be re-cut/re-finished quite often... was thinking of a more durable material.

Edited May 14, 2022 by ifibrin

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

Wood seems to work very well, but needs to be re-cut quite often... was thinking of a more durable material.

Try knitting needles or large sewing needles both available in pvc. Im out at mo but ill post a picky when i get in . Mught be tomorrow though. You can also by 2mm carbon rod to go in a pen for cleaning, but i found that it can scratch if not careful.

5 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

Wood seems to work very well, but needs to be re-cut quite often... was thinking of a more durable material.

Tbh mate. I tried a few things but always end up going back to a shaped pegwood or bamboo skewer. Get a cheap craft knife for sharpening it takes little more than a few seconds

Edited May 14, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[mikepilk]

I've been pegging some small jewel holes this afternoon. Despite using Bergeon Beech wood, I find it hard to get a really fine point. So for the smallest holes I use bamboo skewers. It's much easier to get a fine point. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I've been pegging some small jewel holes this afternoon. Despite using Bergeon Beech wood, I find it hard to get a really fine point. So for the smallest holes I use bamboo skewers. It's much easier to get a fine point. 

The angles that you can create with wood help with pegging

[ChrisRobinson]

40 minutes ago, ifibrin said:

Does anyone have any idea of what other materials to use for holding bridges/ mainplate in position, other than pegwood? I saw in @Mark‘s latest video he is using some sort of plastic rod finished into a wedge shape, but I am unable to find any supply of this.

 

Nylon would be ideal.  It's soft enough to not damage anything, but stiff enough to be useful.  Try searching for "spudger stick" etc.  For example this one on Amazon looks close to what you are looking for and is cheap:
 

https://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Spudger-Opening-Repair-Laptops/dp/B00MXHWSV2

[Tiny]

try sanding the wood instead of using a knife (fine sand paper) just make sure you wipe off the dust 

Here you go from Cousins

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/component-probe-cousins?code=S53397

[mikepilk]

30 minutes ago, Tiny said:

try sanding the wood instead of using a knife (fine sand paper) just make sure you wipe off the dust 

Here you go from Cousins

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/component-probe-cousins?code=S53397

I use those probes from Cousins when assembling bridges etc, they are ideal for the job

[HectorLooi]

Melamine can be quite abrasive. If you've tried drilling melamine, you'll know that it can dull your drill bits pretty fast. But I use melamine chopsticks handles for homemade instruments. 

Carbon fibre is extremely hard and abrasive. But good for scratching off rust stains. So is composite glass fibre 

I've used disposable bamboo chopsticks for hold-down tools. I really hate sharpening pegwood, so I use a tabletop pencil sharpener, the type with a cranking handle. I just stick my bamboo chopsticks into the pencil sharpener and it does a great job a getting a sharp point.

I've also used plastic dental instruments. These used to be given free with every box of cement, so after 30 years I've got a bunch of them. I think the plastic used for these is Delrin. It's a pretty tough material but not easy to get a nice surface after grinding.

I also use brass wire. These are great for things like probing train wheels without leaving scratches. 

[ifibrin]

3 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Melamine can be quite abrasive. If you've tried drilling melamine, you'll know that it can dull your drill bits pretty fast. But I use melamine chopsticks handles for homemade instruments. 

Carbon fibre is extremely hard and abrasive. But good for scratching off rust stains. So is composite glass fibre 

I've used disposable bamboo chopsticks for hold-down tools. I really hate sharpening pegwood, so I use a tabletop pencil sharpener, the type with a cranking handle. I just stick my bamboo chopsticks into the pencil sharpener and it does a great job a getting a sharp point.

I've also used plastic dental instruments. These used to be given free with every box of cement, so after 30 years I've got a bunch of them. I think the plastic used for these is Delrin. It's a pretty tough material but not easy to get a nice surface after grinding.

I also use brass wire. These are great for things like probing train wheels without leaving scratches. 

Looks like wood based materials like pegwood or bamboo chopsticks are the best then.

I was seriously contemplating melamine resin chopsticks, but am wary of it now.

I can only find acrylic plastic rods readily, which I found to be unsuitable already… The plastic sewing needles don’t specify what kind of plastic they are made of, and not sure how much pressure they can take, as well as whether they are easily re-shaped.

[grsnovi]

12 hours ago, ifibrin said:

So far, only pegwood seems to work well.

So why are you searching for an alternative? Pegwood is cheap, available and even renewable. There's a reason it's been used forever.

[spectre6000]

Caution on the bamboo, it's not a wood but a grass. High in silica, which is very hard and abrasive. It'll leave scratch marks where true woods won't. 

From a woodworking perspective, working wood will eventually dull blades exactly as you'd expect. Working bamboo either takes special blades, or you'll eat edges in a hurry.

Incorporating silica into their cell structure was grasses' killer evolutionary app. Nothing could eat them because it would erode their teeth PDQ. Also part of what makes it difficult to digest. Eventually, the evolutionary arms race caught up, and critters figured out how to eat the stuff, but not before it transformed landscapes worldwide.

[mikepilk]

2 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Caution on the bamboo, it's not a wood but a grass. High in silica, which is very hard and abrasive. It'll leave scratch marks where true woods won't. 

From a woodworking perspective, working wood will eventually dull blades exactly as you'd expect. Working bamboo either takes special blades, or you'll eat edges in a hurry.

Incorporating silica into their cell structure was grasses' killer evolutionary app. Nothing could eat them because it would erode their teeth PDQ. Also part of what makes it difficult to digest. Eventually, the evolutionary arms race caught up, and critters figured out how to eat the stuff, but not before it transformed landscapes worldwide.

Good point about scratching, but I only use it for pegging small jewel holes where it shouldn't be a problem.

Pandas must have good teeth !

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

Caution on the bamboo, it's not a wood but a grass. High in silica, which is very hard and abrasive. It'll leave scratch marks where true woods won't. 

From a woodworking perspective, working wood will eventually dull blades exactly as you'd expect. Working bamboo either takes special blades, or you'll eat edges in a hurry.

Incorporating silica into their cell structure was grasses' killer evolutionary app. Nothing could eat them because it would erode their teeth PDQ. Also part of what makes it difficult to digest. Eventually, the evolutionary arms race caught up, and critters figured out how to eat the stuff, but not before it transformed landscapes worldwide.

Interesting info there spectre. Ive never heard that about bamboo. Although ive read very similar ideas regarding evolution of grains. One reason why they  aren't particularly good for us scratching our intestinal walls causing various Ibs conditions. 

[Waggy]

I use wooden chopsticks (just checked that the ones I have are wood and not bamboo) - I sneak a few extra sets when I'm eating out 

[Endeavor]

On 5/14/2022 at 6:31 PM, mikepilk said:

Despite using Bergeon Beech wood, I find it hard to get a really fine point.

Same here. Sometimes I bought the cheaper versions of pegwood by CousinsUK and they were excellent to sharpen. Bought some Bergeon and they were a real pain. Bought the same cheaper version again and those were less good than the previous (same) cheaper version. It seems to me that the wood-quality is not consistent

Edited April 26, 2023 by Endeavor

[spectre6000]

I haven't tested this, but an inexpensive pegwood alternative might be woods used for carving. You're not looking for anything particularly hard, but want something with a fine grain that'll take fine details. Next criteria would be a piece with very straight grain so you can split off little sticks. The luthiery wood that comes to mind is basswood. It's cheap and ugly (you find it in painted guitars), but carves well. A quick google confirms basswood, and adds aspen as a potentially inexpensive option I wouldn't have otherwise considered (it's a bit of a trash wood for most purposes). I'm drowning in spare aspen up here, so I might give it a try next time I'm out of the commercial stuff. I've got trees I cut down a while ago, and another that'll need to come down this season most likely to test a greener cut.

[mikepilk]

On 5/15/2022 at 7:11 PM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Interesting info there spectre. Ive never heard that about bamboo. Although ive read very similar ideas regarding evolution of grains. One reason why they  aren't particularly good for us scratching our intestinal walls causing various Ibs conditions. 

Silica is hardness 7, whereas the jewels are 9, so as long as you are only pegging jewel holes it's not a problem. I sometimes use bamboo skewers for jewels as it's easier to get a fine point.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

I haven't tested this, but an inexpensive pegwood alternative might be woods used for carving. You're not looking for anything particularly hard, but want something with a fine grain that'll take fine details. Next criteria would be a piece with very straight grain so you can split off little sticks. The luthiery wood that comes to mind is basswood. It's cheap and ugly (you find it in painted guitars), but carves well. A quick google confirms basswood, and adds aspen as a potentially inexpensive option I wouldn't have otherwise considered (it's a bit of a trash wood for most purposes). I'm drowning in spare aspen up here, so I might give it a try next time I'm out of the commercial stuff. I've got trees I cut down a while ago, and another that'll need to come down this season most likely to test a greener cut.

I use to carve and turn holly, its pretty hard and smooth with a tight fine straight grain. Not sure how it would be for pegging jewels .

[mikepilk]

13 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

I use to carve and turn holly, its pretty hard and smooth with a tight fine straight grain. Not sure how it would be for pegging jewels .

I wondered about the spindle tree - according to Wiki "European spindle wood is very hard, and can be cut to a sharp point; it was used in the past for making spindles for wool-spinning and for butchers' skewers" as it's so fine grained. Have you ever worked with it @Neverenoughwatches ?

There's plenty in the woods near me - I might look for a dead branch.

Edited April 27, 2023 by mikepilk

[spectre6000]

Holly has gotten really expensive. It's very white, and usually ends up in veneer. It might work, but probably not cheaper than the commercially available pegwood.

Never heard of spindle tree. I don't think hardness is an asset in this use case though. It needs to deform through jewel holes without pressing them out. 

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, spectre6000 said:

Holly has gotten really expensive. It's very white, and usually ends up in veneer. It might work, but probably not cheaper than the commercially available pegwood.

Never heard of spindle tree. I don't think hardness is an asset in this use case though. It needs to deform through jewel holes without pressing them out. 

Spindle is Euonymus europaeus, a small ancient woodland tree in the UK.

It must be easy to sharpen due to what it was used for : "Spindle timber is creamy-white, hard and dense. In the past it was used to make ‘spindles’ for spinning and holding wool (hence its name), as well as skewers, toothpicks, pegs and knitting needles".

[AndyHull]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:58 PM, ifibrin said:

Does anyone have any idea of what other materials to use for holding bridges/ mainplate in position, other than pegwood? I saw in @Mark‘s latest video he is using some sort of plastic rod finished into a wedge shape, but I am unable to find any supply of this.

I'm not sure what the plastic rod is, but I have had some success wooden using coffee stirrers, available for free with your carry out coffee. I cut them to a sharp angled  point with a pair of scissors or my wire cutters. 

When they get a little less pointed, I just clip them back the blunted end by a few millimetres to give me a fresh point.

[tomh207]

14 hours ago, AndyHull said:

I'm not sure what the plastic rod is, but I have had some success wooden using coffee stirrers, available for free with your carry out coffee. I cut them to a sharp angled  point with a pair of scissors or my wire cutters. 

When they get a little less pointed, I just clip them back the blunted end by a few millimetres to give me a fresh point.

They are just spudger Andy, I have seen them in nylon, delrin and acrylic. 1 for £20 bergeon tax, 3 for a fiver anywhere else. They can vary in diameter from 4mm - 6mm.

 

Tom