Vintage Timex cleaning and amplitude

[kibbler]

I got ahold of a vintage 1967 Timex Marlin, one of the ones with a jeweled movement, and I have a couple question about it.  I understand we have a resident Timex expert in @JerseyMo, but anyone with insights can chime in.

Firstly, is the "dunk and swish" method of clean regarded as an acceptable way to clean these watches?  The one I have does have screws, but being full-plate, and with what appear to be various spring held in place only by their own tension, I'm concerned about reassembly.  Are there any guides or tutorial out there that cover a full disassembly?

Second, what kind of amplitude should I expect out of a reasonably serviced movement?  

Lastly, any information or tips on cleaning/oiling these jewels that appear to be capped?  It looks like there's a retaining spring, but I'm not sure how to remove it or what to expect if I do:

Edited March 12, 2022 by kibbler
wrong year, and clarifying question about the jewel

[kibbler]

I found a Google Drive folder than has a collection of Timex service manual PDFs, the relevant one for this movement appears to be Model 74, which referenced Model 72 for the detailed instructions. The diagrams seem to match my movement at least close enough.  

timex_72_service_manual_21jewel.pdf

timex_74_self_winding_jeweled.pdf

[watchweasol]

Hi The dunk and swish as you refer to it was the philosophy behind the cleaning of these movements. Firstly removing the balance to avoid spring damage.  I have attached the 1961 service manual which explains the philosophy.

1961_Service_Manual (1).pdf

[JerseyMo]

FYI if that is the movement inside your watch than it is not a marlin.....rather it is a 21 Jewels automatic.

You can try the 'dunk and swish' as you so call it since it requires little effort.  But know that those cap jewels need to be oiled too.

[kibbler]

2 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

FYI if that is the movement inside your watch than it is not a marlin.....rather it is a 21 Jewels automatic.

You can try the 'dunk and swish' as you so call it since it requires little effort.  But know that those cap jewels need to be oiled too.

Thanks,  I'm still learning.  I was able to remove the cap jewels with a properly sized screwdriver, based on the instructions in the service manual.

I gave it a preliminary oiling after an initial immersion in naptha, and it's running at ~180* amplitude.  Is that terrible?  It seems low, but I know the Timex movements don't follow all the same principles of Swiss movements.  

[kibbler]

3 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

FYI if that is the movement inside your watch than it is not a marlin.....rather it is a 21 Jewels automatic.

You can try the 'dunk and swish' as you so call it since it requires little effort.  But know that those cap jewels need to be oiled too.

Do you tear these movements down further than the service manuals recommend, or stop with removing the balance wheel?

*edit* I see that the 1961 service manual includes instructions for removing the pallet fork and escape wheel, while the Model 72 service manual does not.  Is that only for replacing/repairing those parts, or for cleaning as well?

Edited March 14, 2022 by kibbler

[HectorLooi]

As a beginner, I would advise you not to do a full disassembly. It is very difficult to get the plates together again.

Probably when you become more experienced, then a full teardown and clean would be better, as naptha is not the best cleaning agent for dried up lubricants. 

I've only done one of these 21 jewel movements several years ago and it's NOT fun. You have to modify a screwdriver tip to fit the slot in the cap jewel cover to remove them. And they have a tendency to escape and disappear. Getting a replacement jewel would be next to impossible. 

At the end of the day, it still looks terrible on a timegrapher, but keeps good time and looks good on the wrist.

Sooo.... Good luck and keep us posted

[kibbler]

Well, I took the balance out today, along with removing all the cap jewels to get everything clean and oiled a little better.

I have to say upon trying to reinstall and re-pin the balance, I thought I had made a huge mistake; that thing is fiddly as hell and it took me ages to get the pallet and the spring in the right position again.  I finally got the pin back in there, only to see on my timing software that I had ~12ms of beat error, and it was running +180 s/d with the regulator maxed out.  I had inserted the spring too far into the pin slot thing.

The second time around, things went a bit more smoothly. The last coil of the hairspring still isn't perfect, but at least the amplitude went up, the beat error went down, and I managed to get reasonable  (for me) accuracy

Edited March 15, 2022 by kibbler
wording

[JerseyMo]

agreed with above replies.  I go with the path of lease resistance …

three stage cleaning method. ammonia, water rinse, lighter fluid,....air dry in between.  aid by ultra sonic.

full tear down only when I need to get out some frustration and get to curse and throw tools

timing machine!  I do not have one and don't want one.  I get them running, wear them and adjust best I can.  Even I know these are only Timex and not the other famous "X"

 

[kibbler]

5 hours ago, JerseyMo said:

timing machine!  I do not have one and don't want one.

 

Yes, I was using it more as a diagnostic tool (is it running ok?) rather than to get precise timing.

Do you know what size gaskets these watches use for the caseback?  I ordered some 30.0mm x 0.6mm based on the one that came out of it, but seems a bit loose and/or thin

[JerseyMo]

14 hours ago, kibbler said:

Yes, I was using it more as a diagnostic tool (is it running ok?) rather than to get precise timing.

Do you know what size gaskets these watches use for the caseback?  I ordered some 30.0mm x 0.6mm based on the one that came out of it, but seems a bit loose and/or thin

never measured one actually.  I have a huge stash of parts I go to when needed.

 

[kibbler]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:51 PM, HectorLooi said:

At the end of the day, it still looks terrible on a timegrapher, but keeps good time and looks good on the wrist.

Sooo.... Good luck and keep us posted

I got everything back together, polished the crystal a bit, and added a band.  The winding rotor has a bit more side-to-side play than I would prefer, but it seems to work well, and makes a very satisfying sound.  I have to agree with you that it looks good on the wrist.  Here are a few photos that I took during disassembly and after cleaning/reassembling

Reassembled:

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by kibbler

[watchweasol]

That looks as good, the fact its powered by Timex is irrelevent in my book. The acid test is its time keeping if its accurate it matters not a jot what the timegrapher says.  well done another classic saved.