Dial refinishers: Here for you is a DIRECT comparison

[LittleWatchShop]

Here are two identical dial layouts.  One was done by International Dial and the other was done by Kirk Rich.

Sadly, one of the refinishers failed to follow my instructions to use a patina lume.

You choose which is the best.  After everyone has had some time to review, I will post the identity of each.

[Darthkram]

Hmm, hard one to pick for me, I think I gravitate towards the first dial. Comparing with photos online the text is more accurate (see the 'c' at the end of 'Automatic') and in general seems a bit more crisp and defined.

The lume on the first dial has also been more carefully applied, lots of running over the lines on the second dial.

The numbers in the first dial however are not as sharp as those in the second but the second has quality issues in all 3 numbers displayed, especially the '9'.

The date display in the second it a bit nicer, I also tend to prefer the finish of the black on the second dial, a little bit finer than the first.

Even given that I stick with my preference of the first dial, the crisper logo and accurate text is probably the most important thing for me. I don't place a huge importance on the aged lume although it is definitely a concern if you asked for it and they did not use it, I would not be happy in that case!

[Plato]

The first one looks more manufactory original.

[LittleWatchShop]

Well, I just realized that the first dial has yet another problem.  IT IS NOT AN AUTOMATIC.  I am posting a picture of the dial I sent.

Although the dials are essentially the same, one is for an automatic (C11KAS) and the other is for a manual (C11K)

[jdm]

39 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Here are two identical dial layouts.  One was done by International Dial and the other was done by Kirk Rich.

I don't know anything about dial refinishing but it seems to me these have been hand made not printed? I'd say good skills on both with slightly different imperfections that show these have been reworked. I hope these folks won't get upset for being publicily compared.

[LittleWatchShop]

I have an original NOS dial cased.  I can take a picture but there will be a crystal in the optical path.

[LittleWatchShop]

One certain conclusion can be drawn.  One refinisher follows instructions and the other does not.  It was not hard...he had the dial and markings on the dial he received.  He just grabbed the wrong master.

[LittleWatchShop]

My avatar is an original automatic version.  You can see the lettering of AUTOMATIC matches one refinisher and not the other.

[LittleWatchShop]

9 minutes ago, jdm said:

I don't know anything about dial refinishing but it seems to me these have been hand made not printed? I'd say good skills on both with slightly different imperfections that show these have been reworked. I hope these folks won't get upset for being publicily compared.

Rather doubt they are on this forum.  But...who knows.

[Nucejoe]

The second one got an extra indicator line between hr3 and hr4,  but I like it.

[Nucejoe]

2 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

The second one got an extra indicator line between hr3 and hr4,  but I like it.

Opps , one less line between hr2 and hr3. 

[Nucejoe]

Just now, Nucejoe said:

Opps , one less line between hr2 and hr3. 

Oops again, extra line between hr3 and hr4.

[LittleWatchShop]

@NucejoeHoly shit!!  I missed that.

[LittleWatchShop]

I spoke with the refinisher today...he said he would make it right.

[Nucejoe]

21 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I spoke with the refinisher today...he said he would make it right.

 hr2 and hr4 markers are positioned asymetric with respect to hr3. 

The whole dial is off , you will always be 20min late. 

[Tony13]

I would send both back. To many mistakes even the logo is done poorly and not sharp, the wittnauer text has the wrong font in either one of them.

But it all depends on what you agreed.

[LittleWatchShop]

2 hours ago, Tony13 said:

I would send both back. To many mistakes even the logo is done poorly and not sharp, the wittnauer text has the wrong font in either one of them.

But it all depends on what you agreed.

These dial refinishers are backed up for many months and the only game in town.  At least at some level, they call the shots.  It is hard to specify: "make it look like it came from the factory" so you have to just hope for the best.  I recently bought a NOS dial (like the one described in this post).  They are incredibly rare and 3X+ more expensive.  At the end of the day, you take what you can get.  Some argue not to refinish.  I get that.  But if a dial is a mess...I think refinishing is OK.  The darker dial came from my watch which (many many years ago) I had customized.  The paint began to flake off, so I put the original dial back on the watch and sent the customized one back to return to original (low risk transaction).  Nevertheless, I am unhappy.  But the refinisher has promised to make it right.  It is a no brainer in this case...it was a spectacular FUBAR.

[luiazazrambo]

I cannot add anything useful but Id like to understand why the paint I used once on a dial would not stay on the dial and would flake off, just like the paint I recently used on a hand. Any idea what sort of paint is used here? What does refinish mean? Do they go down to base metal removing the original paint completely? What is the primer and what is the paint? I noticed that some sort of silver colored paint / surface treatment? used as primer in many (most?) cases. Am I right? Are you aware of any material in this topic I could possibly read?

[Tony13]

20 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

These dial refinishers are backed up for many months and the only game in town.  er in this case...it was a spectacular FUBAR.

I am sorry did not mean to offend you.

I was not aware of that situation guess I am just spoiled living close to Germany and speak their language.

 

[LittleWatchShop]

1 minute ago, Tony13 said:

I am sorry did not mean to offend you.

I am not offended...do not worry!!

[LittleWatchShop]

24 minutes ago, luiazazrambo said:

I cannot add anything useful but Id like to understand why the paint I used once on a dial would not stay on the dial and would flake off, just like the paint I recently used on a hand. Any idea what sort of paint is used here? What does refinish mean? Do they go down to base metal removing the original paint completely? What is the primer and what is the paint? I noticed that some sort of silver colored paint / surface treatment? used as primer in many (most?) cases. Am I right? Are you aware of any material in this topic I could possibly read?

Pretty sure that go to base metal.  Beyond that, I do not know.

The dial that I referred to with flaking paint...it was refinished 50 years ago by a company called Southern Dial located in Dallas, TX.  They no longer exist.  No customer service department to complain to...lol.

Edited March 1, 2022 by LittleWatchShop

[jdm]

On 3/2/2022 at 12:12 AM, LittleWatchShop said:

Pretty sure that go to base metal.  Beyond that, I do not know.

 

An uniform painting is done by aerographing with relative ease, but for perfect lettering and other features a perfect dial must be printed, check "pad printer". That requires top level clichés, making them is an art in itself, even in our times. I believe that restorers do that for the most popular models, but for others they must resort to hand painting, possibly guided by some sort of stencil. When the artist is not a top one, or there is too much time pressure, the results come as your examples above.

[LittleWatchShop]

Update: Have resolved the issue of lume and "automatic" with one refinisher who will fix these issues and put me in front of the queue.

Still trying to close the loop with the other dial refinisher--several phone calls but working through and "email" issue (which is quite interesting).

[GuyMontag]

There was a post recently in the Facebook group "Old Vintage Watches" where someone got their Vacheron dial back from International Dial Company after a 7+ month wait, and man, it looked like it had been done by a blind man with a dull crayon. Just unbelievably bad.

[LittleWatchShop]

7 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

There was a post recently in the Facebook group "Old Vintage Watches" where someone got their Vacheron dial back from International Dial Company after a 7+ month wait, and man, it looked like it had been done by a blind man with a dull crayon. Just unbelievably bad.

I would say that IDC did OK except for following instructions.  I think the turn time was about seven months.  They are gonna fix it, so I will get what I get.