Cyma 265 (AS 1674) missing jewels and spring

[dbanks866]

Hi

I've recently got a Cyma 265 automatic as part of a joblot of watches. It's missing the lower balance cap jewel, jewel and kif-flector spring. Does anyone know what size of Kif-flector spring it needs and also can I use jewels from an AS 1674 (even if inca spring setup)? 

Cyma 265 seems to be rare so struggling to get parts.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[jdm]

To help others help you, you should post a picture of the top jewel, as well picture and measurements of the recess for the jewel setting on the main plate.

[Nucejoe]

 Do you already have an incab spring?    if your looking to buy the parts;

Visit the page    AS 1674 ranfft  ,  Dr ranfft lists the entire family AS 1674 is a member of, a KIF flector off of any calibers of this family is your choice. 

Good luck 

[dbanks866]

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

 Do you already have an incab spring?    if your looking to buy the parts;

Visit the page    AS 1674 ranfft  ,  Dr ranfft lists the entire family AS 1674 is a member of, a KIF flector off of any calibers of this family is your choice. 

Good luck 

Thanks Nucejoe. The AS 1674 on the ranfft site is the Cyma 265 that I have. Unfortunately I have searched for the AS calibres listed but none have the KIf spring, all are inca. The Cousins site does have kif springs available so I will measure the recess for the spring first as JDM suggested. 

[Nucejoe]

I neither know nor think Cyma is the sole proprietor of Kif flector.

Venders of movements have the choice of shock systems so you are likely to find Kif flector system on other brands or other Cyma/ AS  calibers.

This only boradens the scope of your choices to other AS calibers as Dr ranfft lists them. 

 

[Nucejoe]

5 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

I neither know nor think Cyma is the sole proprietor of Kif flector.

Venders of movements have the choice of shock systems so you are likely to find Kif flector system on other brands or other Cyma/ AS  calibers.

This only boradens the scope of your choices to other AS calibers as Dr ranfft lists them. 

 

Correction   Broadens not boradens. 

Also if you for example came accross Cyma 1565  kif flector, you have found kif flector spring that fits right onto the setting in Cyma1674.

[dbanks866]

Apologies for not coming back sooner, I was trying to get more information.

The cyma movement I have is the one listed on Ranfft:

 

I took JMD's advice and measured the recess for the Kif spring which was just over 1.4mm which would suggest I need the Kif 2-3.

Next question would be what does the BS stand for so that I can work out which cap and jewel I need?

I also found on the Jules Borel site that the balance for the Kif setup is an AS1140, although I can't find any reference to that movement anywhere. I was interested in this so as to determine which chatron to get as I believe there are different hole sizes: www.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=AS_1674

Thanks

 

 

 

[JohnR725]

On 2/14/2022 at 5:44 AM, dbanks866 said:

The AS 1674 on the ranfft site is the Cyma 265 that I have. Unfortunately I have searched for the AS calibres listed but none have the KIf spring, all are inca.

The problem you're having is the company used a base caliber and modified it. So this means it's not an exact match for the base caliber it's been modified which does present a problem for parts. Especially since all the references imply that it's exactly the same as the base caliber which obviously it is not.

On 2/14/2022 at 3:28 AM, dbanks866 said:

AS 1674

There may be another way to work the problem? But it's going to take some detective work and time. If you look in the physical bestfit book the 1674 base model is 1673. I noticed is actually several balance wheels listed for this? But once you know the base model pick a common component like the barrel or something is not the balance components escape will be good probably see which other watches cross reference to this and then start looking at those in seeing if any of those watches are similar to your watch. Somebody else probably did the same thing otherwise you look in the Kif block except the Kif book of course doesn't list your watch at all?

Yes there really is a Kif cross reference book it's about a quarter inch thick of the 16 series there is 16 seven 786 and 90 and then you go to 17,001. See if any of those look like your watch if they do I'll tell you what the part numbers are.

[dbanks866]

Thanks JohnR725. By accident I came across an Egin movement (884) which looked remarkably similar t the Cyma/AS 1674, although one movement uses inca whilst the other uses Kif Tior, I've attached the pictures. I presume then that they might have used Flector as well. On checking the Jules Borel site for interchangeable parts it is the same list www.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=ELG_884 as the AS1674 from the same site. So maybe this is a good place to start my search? Unfortunately I don't have access to the kif reference book. Can you buy it? I did have a look at the Cousins Kif reference material but Elgin isn't listed.

 

[JohnR725]

7 hours ago, dbanks866 said:

kif reference book

I'm not actually sure where you can find the physical book? I know where mine came from but that's not going to be helpful? I got mine when I went to the factory along with the kidded tools and some spare Springs. I don't know if you stop by the factory anymore whether they would do that and I was in a class at the time.

I know for instance the other spring that you don't have they have a website. Where they have all kinds of interesting information but I don't think Kif has the same thing?

Although cousins might have it if you look up Kif I don't know

http://www.incabloc.ch/en/pieces_rechanges.php

 

 

[Plato]

21 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I'm not actually sure where you can find the physical book? I know where mine came from but that's not going to be helpful? I got mine when I went to the factory along with the kidded tools and some spare Springs. I don't know if you stop by the factory anymore whether they would do that and I was in a class at the time.

I know for instance the other spring that you don't have they have a website. Where they have all kinds of interesting information but I don't think Kif has the same thing?

Although cousins might have it if you look up Kif I don't know

http://www.incabloc.ch/en/pieces_rechanges.php

 

 

I think I've uploaded what you're after in this topic:

KIF shock springs

 

[dbanks866]

Thanks Plato! That's saved me a lot of time. I don't know how I missed that in that post as I thought I'd been through all the thread.

I was tried to approach it a different way in that I had noticed that the Elgin 884 movement had inca and trior options so I made the assumption that the balance bridge wouldn't be changed (rightly or wrongly) so looked at the kif cap and jewel ptions for the trior which matched the flector options, and then I went looking for movements that had the same specification. Turns out there are quite a few eg Tissot, Record, Bulova, and Hamilton to name a few. I had a partial movement from a Bulova 10BPAC and it had the chatron so tried this and it fits confirming at least that.

It looks like I'll be able to get some replacements from Ebay cheaply. I'll order some and let you know how it works out.

Thanks everyone for their input.