Pallet doesn't snap back and forth but runs continuously

[demichiel]

Hi everyone, new member here. I just picked up my first training watch, it has as Raketa 2609HA movement in it. I disassembled it, cleaned it, and now the hard part, I'm trying to put it back together . I have my barrel and train of wheels installed and I just put in the pallet fork.

I thought I'd try to see if it would snap back and forth when I put a small amount of wind in the barrel, but the pallet fork doesn't stop at the ends. The movement just starts running until there is no more power.

Is this normal in some watches or do I have an alignment problem maybe? I've reinstalled the pallet fork 2-3 times now and it seems to be seated right.

I've attached a short video, thanks so much for your help!

 

 

[nickelsilver]

This is normally a sign that the stones or at least one stone is seated too far into the fork. Rather than an escape tooth falling on the locking face of the fork it falls on the impulse face, then the other impulse face and you have this result.

[demichiel]

Thanks nickelsilver! Your explanation seems sound to me, sounds like a problem I won't be able to solve anytime soon though. I've tried to take 2 pictures of the pallet on both extremes of it's movement, could you check if these confirm your idea?

[JohnR725]

Just for the fun of it what happens if you put the balance wheel in Will the watch run?

 

[Nucejoe]

Fluttering might happen due to bent fork, excessinve side shake on fork arbour,  banking pin issues,    can't it. 

@JohnR Is proper escapement possible here?  what do you expect to see with balance installed.

 I worked on a case like this,  oscialtion seemed normal, but would flutter once I removed the balance. 

TIA for your advice

 

[JohnR725]

40 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

@JohnR Is proper escapement possible here?  what do you expect to see with balance installed.

Actually there's several questions to be asked of like what was the watch doing before it was disassembled did the watch run? In other words this is the way it came it was in the running condition?

6 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

This is normally a sign that the stones or at least one stone is seated too far into the fork. Rather than an escape tooth falling on the locking face of the fork it falls on the impulse face, then the other impulse face and you have this result.

while the above statement is true there's also a problem with it? I've seen exactly what is shown and there was no problem at all with the escapement at least when the balance wheel was in the watch ran. For whatever reason it's just bouncing off the impulse planes of the stones my suggestion to put the balance wheel in to see if it runs. One of the problems that happens when you manually push on the fork it's not the same as the impact from the balance wheel is considerably slower. So this means in this particular case it doesn't go all the way weren't supposed to be fast enough and it bounces off the impulse planes. It doesn't necessarily mean the escapement is set perfectly but in my past experience putting the balance wheel in the watch ran problem solves even if it's not exactly ideal but it's still run seven runs who cares which is why I suggested putting the balance wheel in seeing of that solve the problem.

It's also why asked if the watch was running in the first place the pallet stones normally don't move themselves in the cleaning process the fork can get bent of somebody is careless. But that's probably not what's happening it's probably not a bent fork it's probably the way the watch was made in the first place as bizarre as it is

[spectre6000]

Almost posted the above. I won't duplicate, but I'll add a bit of context with some alternate imagery/application (usually helps me remember things).

Another of my proclivities includes woodworking; specifically luthiery (stringed instrument making, with archtop guitars being my weapon of choice). Shellac is a component of many wood finishes. Specifically for my use, a French polish, where it's the only component and mostly process. I haven't made any up in a while, and it's not at all an exact science, but I usually try to guess how much I'm going to need for a project (it doesn't keep long, and any leftovers are wasted), and pour enough shellac flakes into a little squeeze bottle, then pour in just enough booze to cover, and some for me should I feel like it. Which I never do, because Everclear is gross but I mention this because the potability of it is not at all shared with petroleum distillates and helps with the alternate framing. Shake, wait, and repeat every few hours until it's all dissolved. Takes a solid day to get the flakes fully dissolved. 

Re: OP, my first thought was pallet jewel depthing, but bouncing hadn't occurred to me. It seems like an easy way to test between the two would be to hold the pallet to one side or the other, give the mainspring a little wind, then let go and see if it'll hold. If the jewels are deep enough, the escape wheel tooth should be on the locking face and not the impulse face, and it won't go anywhere without the balance (or your tweezer tips) to give it a nudge. Do both sides, since either could be too deep, and would be able to kick the whole thing off on its own with the other jewel getting a bounce to keep the it going. If it'll hold when held to start on both sides, it's probably fine and just a function of where the fork was when you initially gave it some wind. If not on both or either, it's the jewels in the pallet fork.

Rather than running straight over to the high diving board and attempting to reset the pallet jewels, you might consider dredging up a donor movement. I don't know how common that particular movement is, but Russian watches tend to be plentiful in my 404 hunts, so possibly an inexpensive option. Pallet jewels don't get messed with often, so the odds of getting a good fork seem pretty high.

Edited February 4, 2022 by spectre6000