EB 8800 Watch Runs But Hands Don't Move

[SAK335]

So I'm restoring this Endura dive watch from the 60s (for my 8 year old son as it's 31mm) and have it back together and it's running nicely but the hands don't move. What I mean is that the watch train is not driving the hour or minute hands (the second hand moves), though they can be moved using the setting lever.  I didn't notice anything strange during assembly, but this is the first time I've worked on one of these.

On this movement there is a clutch on the second wheel that allows switching from having the mainspring move the canon pinion, and from the setting lever to do so.  My only thought is that perhaps the clutch on the second wheel is worn and so that it doesn't move when out of the setting position.  But I'm not sure how to test this to confirm my suspicion without taking it back apart.  That's fine I guess because if I'm right I'll need to do that anyway.  I do have two parts movements for this watch, so I have two shots at a second wheel that works.  But I'd hate to take it apart again if there's another cause.  

Also, is there a way to test the parts movement wheels for a similar issue?

And yes, that's a before pic!

Thanks.

[Nucejoe]

Hope this helps.

[luiazazrambo]

You probably need to remove the hands and the dial to investigate this.

You might want to polish the "crystal", there are several videos about it on youtube, pretty simple and relatively quick.

Edited February 2, 2022 by luiazazrambo

[SAK335]

"You might want to polish the "crystal", there are several videos about it on youtube, pretty simple and relatively quick."

As I mentioned, the photo above is a "Before" photo.  The crystal has been polished and is ready to go.  I use automotive sandpaper (600 - 2000 - 5000 followed by automotive paint swirl remover) and it always turns out nicely.  The chrome plating on the lugs has started to peel a bit, but overall it's pretty nice considering I paid next to nothing for it.

I did pull the hands/dial and I don't see anything wrong.  I'm going to take it back apart and replace the 2nd wheel from one of my spares and see if that fixes the problem.  This watch was a non-runner that I bought in a lot of dive watches to get a bezel for another watch I had rebuilt, and so I expected I'd run into something along the way.

[HectorLooi]

Could you post some pictures of the second wheel? Why do you think the second wheel is at fault? If it were, it wouldn't be able to transfer power to the balance wheel.

It sounds like the cannon pinion is slipping or the motion works is siezed up.

When the watch is running, does the second hand move? When setting the hands, does it feel loose?

[luiazazrambo]

1 hour ago, SAK335 said:

As I mentioned, the photo above is a "Before" photo. 

Sorry I missed this. Show us an after picture as well. I realized that I have these hands somewhere in one of my boxes for EB movements, so I think at least..

Edited February 2, 2022 by luiazazrambo

[AndyHull]

Probably a worn wheel or missing teeth, however another possibility.

Is there a dial washer?
I don't see one in the pictures.

Should there be? 
I don't have access to a working watch to check, so someone else will need to answer this.

If there should be one, and it was fitted, was it fitted the correct way up?
If not this may allow the hands to disengage.

The good news is that whatever the cause of the issue, parts movements can be picked up very easily and cheaply, and so far as I can tell, from piecing together random junk movements from ebay,  most parts from the jewelled and un-jewelled versions of the EB88XX series are interchangeable.

[SAK335]

OK, so I disassembled the back of the movement again and took a look at the 2nd wheel.  As I suspected, the clutch was shot and that is what was causing the problem.  It took me an hour to get the top plate back on...dang pin lever movements.  This one has 7 jewels but only the escape wheel is jeweled...the rest are tiny holes in the plates.

Anyway, it's back together and the hands are moving.  I need to do a little more work on the Timegrapher, but it's very close.  I also need a crown; I have no idea what happened to the original, probably got scavenged for another project.  I bought this watch in 2016...

Anyway, I've included photos of the 2nd wheel for anybody else that encounters this issue.  The top of the wheel is like any other, but the bottom has a clutch that engages the setting pinion.  It's a neat setup, but when it wears out, this is the result.  Basically you grab the bottom gear with a pair of tweezers, and if you can easily rotate the top of the wheel, the clutch is worn.  Just like any clutch (whether car, watch, etc) it needs "enough" friction but not too much or too littel. Thank goodness for parts movements.

 

[SAK335]

And also, the cannon pinion on this watch is not a press fit due to the design with the clutch on the 2nd wheel.  The 2nd wheel engages the canon pinion which is held in place with a plate (in this case, the calendar works.)