help with Hamilton H-10 80h movement

[east3rn]

Hello.

I am about to work on this Hamilton H-10 80hr movement.

The main problem with this movement is that it runs super fast when hand wound close to fully 

but runs ok (accuracy around 5 sec a day) when wound a little bit

Has anyone experienced something like this?

Any advice would be grateful.

Thank you.

 

[Nucejoe]

Sounds like wrong mainspring.

[JohnR725]

18 hours ago, east3rn said:

I am about to work on this Hamilton H-10 80hr movement

 

15 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Sounds like wrong mainspring.

would probably be helpful if we got a history in other words the watch was working fine and suddenly one day it's doing this? Because a watch that you're about to work on shouldn't have the wrong mainspring?

 

[Nucejoe]

5 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

 

would probably be helpful if we got a history in other words the watch was working fine and suddenly one day it's doing this? Because a watch that you're about to work on shouldn't have the wrong mainspring?

 

Right,

Frankly I have lost track of how many times you have advised that a bit of history helps with fault finding.

Regs 

Joe

 

[rodabod]

Firstly, determine if it is "knocking" or "knocking the bankings" which is due to excessive amplitude. It will no have a steady "tick" sound in this state and will sound like it is galloping like a horse.

If it is indeed that, then it could be an incorrect mainspring, but I would have thought it more likely that the mainspring in this watch may still be the original. So, perhaps it is not slipping correctly when nearly fully wound. 

Alternatively, you may simply have a contaminated hairspring which only sticks/binds at higher amplitudes.

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Frankly I have lost track of how many times you have advised that a bit of history helps with fault finding.

Are you suggesting that this is a stupid approach? the reason I ask is could we change the mainspring and cause this to happen definitely accept where would you get the mainspring for this watch?

 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Are you suggesting that this is a stupid approach? the reason I ask is could we change the mainspring and cause this to happen definitely accept where would you get the mainspring for this watch?

 

I meant it literally, one can only concure with you on this very useful advice of yours, a bit of history does actually save us a lot of guessing.

Regs

Joe

 

[JohnR725]

29 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

I meant it literally, one can only concure with you on this very useful advice of yours, a bit of history does actually save us a lot of guessing.

weather has been abnormally warm in Seattle so my brain is more likely to react inappropriately to things.

Yes it does seem that a lot of times it saves a lot of time if we know what it actually is happened to the watch before. For instance the Hamilton is based on a eta but it's been modified. so from a problem-solving point of view if the original poster receive this watch the customer oh dear this is what is doing is going to a very different than if we find out somebody's worked on it before because then you definitely going to have some issues then the even one or even work on this watch at all?

The first link has the Hamilton movement we can see it's based on a ETA C07.111 . The problem with saying based on does it mean it is the same or they modified it? If they modified it it's even worse. then the ETA C07.111  is based on the ETA 2824-2 which is found that the second link

so is everything is based on the ETA 2824-2 Lias make the while assumption that's what it is service it just like normal everything agree fine except it's not that simple. We've had discussions before on this group about the ETA C07.111? The reason it's come up it's basically the same as the where the base for the Powermatic 80. the problem becomes in that while it is based on a common movement it's been modified and the modified parts are not available unless you can order from Swatch group. The same as the technical bulletin is only available on the Swatch group website which I'm sure we all have access to so that shouldn't be a problem.

now back to my question should you even work on this watch? Because the parts that have been modified are things like the balance wheel and the entire escapement which they use the clever words synthetic that really means plastic. I'm not sure if you can even clean it in anything resembling normal cleaning fluids plus it requires a special lubricants that unlike everything else this watch is not available it you can buy the special lubricants online. Then of course modifications the entire barrel assemblies been changed that's because it has an 80 hour run time. So someone puts the base caliber mainspring in this watch your definitely going to have an issue.

then it be nice to get feedback regarding rodabod's suggestions although listening to this watch might be challenging in that they have an actual timing procedure for the watch because it's really quiet.

 

https://watchbase.com/hamilton/caliber/h-10

https://watchbase.com/eta/caliber/c07-111

 

 

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

react inappropriately to things

...but we love you...you are the google of watchmaking...at least one of them!

[east3rn]

On 7/1/2021 at 1:27 AM, rodabod said:

Firstly, determine if it is "knocking" or "knocking the bankings" which is due to excessive amplitude. It will no have a steady "tick" sound in this state and will sound like it is galloping like a horse.

If it is indeed that, then it could be an incorrect mainspring, but I would have thought it more likely that the mainspring in this watch may still be the original. So, perhaps it is not slipping correctly when nearly fully wound. 

Alternatively, you may simply have a contaminated hairspring which only sticks/binds at higher amplitudes.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 4:04 AM, Nucejoe said:

Sounds like wrong mainspring.

 

On 6/30/2021 at 7:46 PM, JohnR725 said:

 

would probably be helpful if we got a history in other words the watch was working fine and suddenly one day it's doing this? Because a watch that you're about to work on shouldn't have the wrong mainspring?

 

Thank you all for answers.

Ticking sound is quite fast and it does have slight deviation.

Balance wheel seems to rock much faster than other 21600bph movements.

Is there a way to repair the mainspring in this case?

Thank you always.

[JohnR725]

On 6/29/2021 at 8:49 AM, east3rn said:

Hamilton H-10 80hr movement

out of curiosity is there any sort of number under the balance wheel?then is there a reference number on the case back? Somewhere I noticed a discrepancy between the Hamilton number and allegedly what the actual movement is.

 

8 hours ago, east3rn said:

Balance wheel seems to rock much faster than other 21600bph movements

if you put on a timing machine what frequency does the timing machine indicate?

 

 

[east3rn]

3 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

out of curiosity is there any sort of number under the balance wheel?then is there a reference number on the case back? Somewhere I noticed a discrepancy between the Hamilton number and allegedly what the actual movement is.

 

if you put on a timing machine what frequency does the timing machine indicate?

Hello.

Frequency is 21600.

Amplitude around 300, beat error is ok but rate is +++ 

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, east3rn said:

beat error is ok but rate is +++ 

it really would be nice to have the model number located next to the balance wheel. The reason why it be nice to have the model number is is quite a few variations of the  ETA caliber C07.xxx. But current wild guess is that despite what the links I had above indicating it may be that your watch is a ETA caliber C07.611 which indicates that it has a standard escapement which is better for you because of you had the synthetic escapement which is plastic you need special lubrication more likely special cleaning procedure and your timing machine probably wouldn't work on it anyway.

then I'm attaching a picture of the problems with the  ETA C07 series of watches is you'll notice that there is no regulator. You only have half of the etachron system specifically the stud and you can use the center of the hairspring and adjust the beat. Or regulation you have two screws they have to be adjusted ideally with a special tool or you could damage the balance wheel probably best just to leave those alone and they have to be adjusted equally aerial screw up the poise.

Then one of the problems with the Chinese timing machine it be nice to pick sure that is the numeric display and the graphical display have to agree otherwise you're probably getting a false something is right so if the beat error visually looks right the jury getting +++ on the display in real life it's not right. The graphical display can only show a limited range and that it basically folds over see you can adjust the watch grossly out of beat and still haven't visually look okay but if the numbers have but you have it's probably grossly out of beat. So if somebody didn't know what they were doing and thought this was for regulation that would definitely be a problem. But if you are super grossly out of beat you shouldn't have a amplitude 300° they be nice to have a timing machine photograph.

 

https://watchbase.com/eta/caliber/c07-611

[JohnR725]

I thought I'd check back and see if there's any progress? Always hard to tell if our help is of any help at all if we never get a feedback of the final outcome?