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Gold Filled Case Renovation?

zenon

By zenon
in Watch Repairs Help & Advice

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zenon WRT Addict

zenon

Posted
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Hi,

 

I am looking at Russian Poljot De Luxe I intend to restore. The case is gold filled 20 microns and as the pic shows there is damage/wear to it. What is the general rule here? Do we restore/renovate cases like this? If so how is this done? What is done to stop the corrosion?

 

The eaten out gold and brass:

 

post-335-0-66295400-1428904917_thumb.jpg

 

Also the movement supposed to be #2209 (whatever it means), I've seen pictures of the movement and there is the number engraved above the 23 kamnia and the manufacturer stamp. On the one I have the # and manufacturer stamp is missing. Should this other me?

The markings on the bridges:

 

with the number ect.

 

post-335-0-99531400-1428905002_thumb.jpg

 

pic of mine:

 

post-335-0-57297300-1428905088_thumb.jpg

 

z

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WillFly Distinguished Member

WillFly

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Yes - "Kamniya" is jewels.

 

As far as the half moon shaped concave hollow in the case rim is concerned, it's not damage - it's actually a pry point to assist in snapping off the case back. It's something you see from time to time on some Russian Poljot and Raketa casings. I've certainly seen this before. If you look closely at the concave hollow, you'll see that it's perfectly formed but with some minor damage where tools have been used. I can't say I've seen the hollow under the stem tube before but, again, it looks to be there for a purpose, rather than damage.

 

Apart from that, the gold filling looks good to me - there's no brassing and just some minor scratching on the case generally, and it looks to be a good movement. I can tell you that to have it regilded by a decent goldsmith/silversmith or casemaker would cost you (in the UK) about £100+ - not worth it.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

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zenon WRT Addict

zenon

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Posted (edited)

Yes - "Kamniya" is jewels.

 

As far as the half moon shaped concave hollow in the case rim is concerned, it's not damage - it's actually a pry point to assist in snapping off the case back. It's something you see from time to time on some Russian Poljot and Raketa casings. I've certainly seen this before. If you look closely at the concave hollow, you'll see that it's perfectly formed but with some minor damage where tools have been used. I can't say I've seen the hollow under the stem tube before but, again, it looks to be there for a purpose, rather than damage.

 

Apart from that, the gold filling looks good to me - there's no brassing and just some minor scratching on the case generally, and it looks to be a good movement. I can tell you that to have it regilded by a decent goldsmith/silversmith or casemaker would cost you (in the UK) about £100+ - not worth it.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

I am sorry but the picture was rather poor quality and the lighting bad. See this one with arrows:

 

 

post-335-0-47037100-1428917903_thumb.jpg

 

The arrows point to the corroded niches. I think at first the gold was 'polished' down but wrist's skin to the bare brass and then sweat corroded holes in the brass. One clearly visible is the dint near the stem hole.

 

But I think you've answered the question - I will just leave it as it is it is used watch is it not? :) I thought that maybe there is like a general convention in this to go THAT far with renovations.

 

Thanks Will.

Edited by zenon
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anilv Distinguished Member

anilv

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Hi Zenon,

 

No real way out of this one.. I assume the front is OK? In that case I would just use it as it is...not so much a daily wearer but more of an 'evening out' watch. You can replate a watch but the resulting finish is no way comparable to how a 'gold-filled' or 'rolled gold' (same thing) looks almost like the real thing!

 

As for the movement... it could be a) from a different factory or b)from a different period. The Russian were not too bothered about copyright and they production was based on capacity. In your example with the extra word/numbers.. the figures inside the Pentagram would be for the 1st Moscow Watch factory. The ones from Minsk had a more rounded cartouche. Since there is no cartouche it could be from either factory (or even a totally different one!). This movement was made for around 20 years so anything goes! One thought.. since they used the word 'jewel' instead of the Cyrillic equivalent could it have been an export model?

 

The example with the russian wording also has bevelled edges on the bridges whereas yours has a stepped edge. The bevelled edge is cosmetically nicer but this should not affect the running of the watch.

 

The 2209 movement is one of the nicer movements from the former USSR, most of them come in gold filled cases and I believe they were at the top of the food-chain back in the day! It was originally made in the 1st Moscow Watch Factory at Kirova. Production was later transferred to the Minsk, Belarus.

 

Personally I love this watch, especially how silky smooth it winds!..Only two things bug me, firstly I wish it had a Breguet overcoil..most Russian one have these, even the cheap ones, but I believe it was left out here in the pursuit of slimness. Secondly, on most of the watches I've seen, the second hand is too short! I believe this was due to the low dome crystal originally fitted but it doesn't look 'right'.

 

Anil

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WillFly Distinguished Member

WillFly

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Posted

I see what you mean - if it's corrosion, it's the weirdest corrosion I've ever seen. It actually looks as though it's been purposely ground down in some way - though for whatever possible reason I can't comprehend!

 

The wear on the lugs is also odd - you would expect it to be on the inside, where the strap meets the lugs...

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ro63rto Distinguished Member

ro63rto

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I see what you mean - if it's corrosion, it's the weirdest corrosion I've ever seen. It actually looks as though it's been purposely ground down in some way - though for whatever possible reason I can't comprehend!

The wear on the lugs is also odd - you would expect it to be on the inside, where the strap meets the lugs...

Maybe it was dropped/damaged to the point that it was uncomfortable to wear so was filed/smoothed down to allow it to be worn again.

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bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

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Interesting subject. I've seen watches that have rusted cases and sometimes I can't even figure how the heck it rusted in such a pattern. I guess it is just how people wear them. Nothing much to do there.

 

@anil. Good information Anil, thanks for sharing!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

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Blacklab Distinguished Member

Blacklab

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Posted

Once you get through the gold the brass/ base metal it gets eaten by sweat quite quickly. I have a few 60's Seiko Sportsmatics in similar condition, you just have to live with it. The deep scars tend to be on the back don't notice while wearing. I normally give the cases a good blast in the ultrasonic with detergent and a polish with a Selvyt gold cloth which tends to polish the base metal and blend it in with the gold.

 

Close up:

post-80-0-45915400-1428929961.jpg

 

But gets less noticeable as you move out:

post-80-0-45873000-1428930026.jpg

 

Its always a problem with gold plated/ filled watches, that why I prefer stainless steel.

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zenon WRT Addict

zenon

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Hi Zenon,

 

No real way out of this one.. I assume the front is OK? [...]

As for the movement... it could be a) from a different factory or b)from a different period. [...] the figures inside the Pentagram would be for the 1st Moscow Watch factory. The ones from Minsk had a more rounded cartouche. Since there is no cartouche it could be from either factory (or even a totally different one!). This movement was made for around 20 years so anything goes! One thought.. since they used the word 'jewel' instead of the Cyrillic equivalent could it have been an export model?

 

The example with the russian wording also has bevelled edges on the bridges whereas yours has a stepped edge. The bevelled edge is cosmetically nicer but this should not affect the running of the watch.

 

The 2209 movement is one of the nicer movements from the former USSR, most of them come in gold filled cases and I believe they were at the top of the food-chain back in the day! It was originally made in the 1st Moscow Watch Factory at Kirova. Production was later transferred to the Minsk, Belarus.

 

Personally I love this watch, especially how silky smooth it winds!..Only two things bug me, firstly I wish it had a Breguet overcoil..most Russian one have these, even the cheap ones, but I believe it was left out here in the pursuit of slimness. Secondly, on most of the watches I've seen, the second hand is too short! I believe this was due to the low dome crystal originally fitted but it doesn't look 'right'.

 

Anil

My goodness you know your stuff Anil! I appreciate your post very much it clears the doubts I've had. The 'Jewel' instead of Cyrylic seems so obvious but I never look at it (My eye glass was most pro0bably too dusty :-) ). Thank you. The watch will be serviced, I will replace the crystal but it will stay worn. I guess I will treat watches like antique furniture - leave some wear and tear.

 

:bow:

 

Z

Edited by zenon
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