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Anyone been inside Seiko Crown, Sportsman, and Champions from the 1960's?

NewToWatches
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NewToWatches Watch Enthusiast

NewToWatches

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I have been looking on the Auction-Site-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named at older Seiko dress watches,specifically the Seiko Crown, Sportsman, and Champion from the 1960's. All are dress watches with a minimalist 1960's styling that I like -- kind of like a poor man's Omega Seamaster from the same era. Does any one of you have a sense of what the major design differences were among the models? On the outside, they definitely have a "family resemblance." I have a couple of the 17 Jewel Diashock Sportsmans in decent shape that run about +12 sec/day, and a couple, including a Champion, that are non-working. Were these different lines of watches sold contemporaneously? Did they share any components? Or were they separate design efforts by different Seiko factories that should be treated as different lines of evolution? My questions stem as much from a desire to take the non-working watches apart and see whether they can't be cleaned as it is from a desire to understand the brand.  I am probably "out over my skis" in terms of my level of actual expertise, but you have to start somewhere.

Thanks in advance for any insights. . .

BTW, I did ask the above question on The Watch Site, which seems to be a good place to ask question about Japanese automatics.  91 views and no responses though, so maybe it is all Seiko SKX dive watches over there.  It is a generous community when the collectibility of a watch is in question -- but on the insides of these beasties, I trust you all the most.

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jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

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1 minute ago, NewToWatches said:

I have been looking on the Auction-Site-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named at older Seiko dress watches,specifically the Seiko Crown, Sportsman, and Champion from the 1960's.

These are JDM models and not even the most popular, if you are interested in getting them or just looking at pictures look on Y! Japan auctions, not Ebay. To buy there you will need an agent, preferably not Buyee, there are much better ones.

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NewToWatches Watch Enthusiast

NewToWatches

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2 minutes ago, jdm said:

These are JDM models and not even the most popular, if you are interested in getting them or just looking at pictures look on Y! Japan auctions, not Ebay. To buy there you will need an agent, preferably not Buyee, there are much better ones.

Interesting.  So what were the most popular model dress watches for the domestic market if these don't make the cut?   I do like the styling though. 

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jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

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Just now, NewToWatches said:

Interesting.  So what were the most popular model dress watches for the domestic market if these don't make the cut?   I do like the styling though. 

King and Grand Seiko are the ones attracting the most collectors, for good reasons of quality, looks, and investment value.

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jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

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1 hour ago, NewToWatches said:

No disrespect to JDM's answer, but I guess I still have my basic question on the innards.  It seems like incremental improvements were being made all the time to these Seiko movements. 

Which movements? On a Seiko watch that identified by the first 4 digits of the reference on the caseback, while what is printed on the dial is there to establish it's marketing line or brand in some cases. You can learn a bit more on the history of Seiko movements from the following link, and many other similar ones on the web. https://www.trovestar.com/generic/blog.php?Article=55

Quote

Any thoughts on mainspring availability?

Do you have a watch in hand already, fully serviced and tested? That is the only time when the need for a new mainspring can be established with certainty, unless it's visibly strained when taken apart. 

Just because a mainspring is 60 years old one can't assume it's to be replaced. It may have spent most of its time in a drawer, or have been replaced at some point already. 

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NewToWatches Watch Enthusiast

NewToWatches

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Ah!  Super helpful.   I see from the article you linked to that although these watches have an outwards similarity in style, their workings represent different stages of caliber development.   My working ones are a Seiko Sportsman with a movement number that looks like 2290 and one that has no dial marking but J14020 on the back.  The non-workjing ones are a Seiko Crown with a 337 movement and a Sportsman that says different things on the watch face and the back  The face appears to say SMS 15N310E and the back says 15019E.  I'll have to open them and see how the movements are stamped.

Many thanks!  This was just what I was looking for.

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