helvetia 35 movement replacement part question

[Samuel]

Hi my name is Samuel,

Im a new member to this forum. Im currently working to restore a helvetia pocket watch. For the past month I've been searching on the internet to see if a balance complete for the Helvetia 32a movement would fit in a Helvetia 35 movement. The two movements seems very similar or even identical. Is there someone able to help me or give me some additional research advice or tools?

Thank you for your help,

Have a good day

[watchweasol]

Hi  have a look  at this link    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk               or google Ranfft helvetia 32             for further information.

_ Helvetia 32.html

[Samuel]

Thank you for the info. I already navigated on this website. I wasn’t able to confirm if the part (balance complete for movement Helvetia 32a) would be an equivalent substitute for the Helvetia 35 movement. If its not possible to know if the part could be a substitute, do you know a website that I could shop for this part? 
 

Thank you again

[watchweasol]

Have look at Esslingers .com  or jules Borel, timesavers in the stales.  There is also Gleave&co in London  and A.G.Thomas in bradford uk   there is a lot of data on the Pocketwatch site.    

Is it that the staff has broken ?    As the same staff fits the 32/32A/32BN I would think that they are cross comatible being in the same family.        cheers

[Samuel]

Its not the balance staff that is broken its the hairspring of the balance that is broken on my Helvetia 35 movement. I know that cousins uk sells a balance complete only for the 32a and 34 Helvetia movement that's why I wanna know if they are interchangeable.
 

Thank you

[Nucejoe]

Staff on helvetia 35b is 150/1000 ligne longer , also the balance wheel stands taller on 35. No need digging any deeper the answer is the two are very unlikely to interchange or can be made fit.

Julesborel list balance complete for both calibers, I am sure the asking price will change ones mind though. 

 

[Samuel]

Thank you for the info, I looked at the price and its indeed pretty salty. 

[Nucejoe]

Sorry for repetitiously pest ing folks with this subject.Nevertheless

The balance wheel you have can yet be completed by vibrating it with a complatable hairspring. 

 

[Samuel]

Thank you for the info but do you know how can I buy a hairspring separately from the balance for the Helvetia 35 movement, because I have the balance it just needs a hairspring because it is broken.

thank you

[Gra]

Hi Samual,

I am servicing a Helvetia also, wristwatch, so your question drew my attention.

You have had plenty of great advise I can see, however, if its just the hairspring your loking for yoou could look on this website, might help I don't know.

http://www.britishprecisionsprings.co.uk/

Graham

[Samuel]

Hi,

Is it possible to use a hairspring from a Helvetia 32 movement to vibrate a Helvetia 35 balance?

thank you

[JohnR725]

I have a link to the cross reference parts for your movement. Then even though the abbreviation is GEN for general according to the bestfit book that's what you're supposed to use for Helvetia. It looks like the only cross reference for balance complete is the 34-35.

12 hours ago, Samuel said:

Is it possible to use a hairspring from a Helvetia 32 movement to vibrate a Helvetia 35 balance?

At one time that used to be services that would vibrate hairsprings for you but as far as I know they're all gone. There doesn't seem to be a lot of information on these movements. If your balance wheel has screws that can be removed. Or modified. If 32 and 35 balance wheel of the same physical size and mass then may be. But typically hairsprings were never available separately except when you had access to lots of different sizes of timing screws to make up for the timing difference between one hairspring and another.

 

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=GEN_35

[Samuel]

Thank you for the info. Unfortunately I contacted Jules Borel for the part and they said that it was discontinued. 
 

thank you

[JGrainger]

Unpinned hairsprings are sometimes available as parts of watchmakers listings on ebay. There are also charts of shapes to use as templates for the ends of springs, and there are also a few of the tools and assortments of timing washers and screws in circulation.
The availability of suitable raw springs in great condition is possibly the main problem, looking at the Ranfft site, you may be able to start with a hairspring from an incomplete similar-sized Swiss parts movement.. maybe something like a 7 jewel Limit, then turn a new staff to fit the new hairspring collet and the old Helvetia balance parts. I'm not sure whether the spring in that watch will be steel, it might be one of the early Invar types which can be a bit soft and easy to damage.

[Nucejoe]

Is helvetia 35 hairspring an overcoil or flat.

[Samuel]

Its an overcoil.

[Nucejoe]

19 hours ago, Samuel said:

Hi,

Is it possible to use a hairspring from a Helvetia 32 movement to vibrate a Helvetia 35 balance?

thank you

Vibrating overcoil hairsprings is a bit complicated, flat coil is simpler to vibrate. 

All helv35 hairsprings have the same CGS( springness), however, that doesn't  mean a spring out one helv35 neccessarily vibrates with another helv35 balance wheel, since in addition to CGS the length of the spring is a significant pararmeter in compatability of the two( hairspring& balance wheel ). So your are looking at both the CGS and length of the spring for compatability.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nucejoe]

12 minutes ago, Samuel said:

Its an overcoil.

Oh boy. 

[Nucejoe]

16 minutes ago, Samuel said:

Its an overcoil.

I let @praezis work with you.                buyèeeeee

[Nucejoe]

Just now, Nucejoe said:

I let @praezis work with you.                buyèeeeee

by byeeeeee 

[Samuel]

Hi,

thanks for the info. I am new to this hobby, so this task seems a bit difficult to do. Do you know another website where they could be selling parts for helvetia pocket watches? Because, I sent an email to Jules Borel and they said that the part was discontinued.

thank you

[JohnR725]

48 minutes ago, Samuel said:

task seems a bit difficult to do.

Vibrating hairspring is strangely enough is still taught in some schools but basically is a thing of the past. Then the reason why it's difficult is it's not a beginners subject. Plus we no longer have the supply of raw hairsprings they did at one time. Even the schools a decreased how many hairsprings you can do because they don't have an infinite supply like they once did.

Then depending upon where you're located perhaps your country only has one material house you can give up after you try that. Otherwise there may be more than one you need to try all of them. A day give them enough information that they can figure out what you're trying to get because there's more than one material system out there. Then some of the bigger material houses of slowly been absorbing other material houses so they need to have time to go on look to see if they have it.

Then there's eBay you never know what's my show up there C want to keep an eye open for balance wheels and even a complete movement.

[Samuel]

Hi JohnR725,

Thanks for the info, I am located in Canada. What is a material house? 
 

thanks

[JohnR725]

17 minutes ago, Samuel said:

material house

I suppose it would be better if I said watch material house. It's a business that sells watch material. There interesting businesses in that they like to hide at least till the Internet and their big enough. For instance when I started watch repair Seattle had four material houses you could walk into and by parts. Slowly they all disappeared and one of them remains several generations of family later and another one. So there are two material houses that I could physically walk into in Seattle. But neither one is online and one of them is really hard to find you have to know it exists.

In the early days the material houses are typically wholesale. They seem to have an attitude of if you don't know we exist we don't want to know you exist. Today the bigger ones at least or the ones that grasp the Internet or online. But that does mean there's a lot of other material houses lurking here and there that are almost by word-of-mouth.

Then not always hobby friendly because a lot of times only do business with wholesale accounts. But as the number of watchmakers decrease they tend to be a little better about that. But even online somebody's people will not do business with you unless you're a business.

I suspect for Canada there is more than the two that I found below. I just did a quick check one of them as watch material the other one is more of a tool supplier.

I've never looked I don't know if we have a list of online material houses on this message board or not?

http://www.swisswatchmaterial.com/

https://www.gessweincanada.com/category-s/10553.htm

[Samuel]

Hi JohnR725,

Thanks for the info. Im gonna send an email to watch material and see if they have a balance complete for the helvetia 35 movement in stock. 
 

Thanks