Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Hi,

 

I have cleaned and I am in the process of rebuilding a Seiko 7005 movement. Apologies in advance that I do not have a proper timegrapher at my disposal at this time. Anyway I am experiencing an issue where the ticky ticky sound from the escapement is intermittently going quiet, like it is being muted. The APP on my phone is picking this up. Interestingly the rate is not changing. The phenomenon can happen in all positions but seems to be more prevalent in the vertical ones. Amplitude seems very good by eye, I can stop the balance and then watch it spin up to over 270 degrees face up. Rate in all positions is within plus or minus 5 seconds compared to face up. I've attached two traces, one with normal tick sound and one that shows the tick sound go quiet half way across the trace. The peaks then are much smaller and seem to have a smaller peak right next to the main peak. Any idea what could be happening here?08b268df2792d7077c27b3442e03e8bc.jpg0a06885dd96abbf085d3e5f11dc4aed9.jpg

 

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

 

Posted
19 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

 

Anyway I am experiencing an issue where the ticky ticky sound from the escapement is intermittently going quiet, like it is being muted.

Record the sound and post it ? It make no sense that it doesn't make noise but the balance swings.

19 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

The APP on my phone is picking this up. Interestingly the rate is not changing.

That means nothing, rate is probably averaged over a time period.

Posted
2 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

Apologies in advance that I do not have a proper timegrapher at my disposal at this time.

if the watch physically is keeping time don't worry about it. The timing apps and our experience on the message board has been basically it's a waste of our time to even look at your problem until you get something that resembles a real timing machine. Both the Chinese 1000 and 1900 are highly recommended by the people on this discussion group relatively cheap and they work really well.

 

  • Like 1
Posted
9 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

Any kind of music player that can play. Wav files.

But your files have no extension, and won't open without renaming.
However is JonhR275 is right above: get yourself a timegrapher.

Posted
But your files have no extension, and won't open without renaming.
However is JonhR275 is right above: get yourself a timegrapher.
That's in the plans, wonder what people did before timegraphers came about? Anyway I have been thinking about the problem and doing a lot of reading. Going to have a look at the mainspring barrel arbour lubrication today. I had previously over lubricated the barrel and spring causing the mainspring to slip in the barrel. So I had stripped it down, rebuilt and doing so I didn't lubricate the barrel arbour in its barrel holes. I think it might be binding slightly and then releasing causing variation in power delivery. That's my theory and it is plausible.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Posted
6 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

They are .wav files, no idea why the Tapatalk app on Android stripped that when I uploaded.

Will you let me share another bit of advice. You will find that the high quality of this forum software allows easy, full and unhindered access to all features directly from a mobile browser.

Posted
54 minutes ago, jdm said:

Will you let me share another bit of advice. You will find that the high quality of this forum software allows easy, full and unhindered access to all features directly from a mobile browser.

Thanks JDM, I am giving that a go right now. Hope it works out better than using the app.

Posted

Well, I cleaned and rebuilt this afternoon and lubricated the barrel arbour. The quiet ticking still appears to come and go dependent on the watch position but there doesn't appear to be any logic to when it happens. Anyway I have decided just to accept it as the watch is old and the issue is probably caused by wear. Watch has good amplitude and the rate is stable. Really happy with this Seiko. It's for my wife also made in 1972.

Posted

Vid is clear but audio?    Heard no ticking at all much less come and go.

Did you check side shakes on fork arbour and staff pivots?

Regards

 

Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Vid is clear but audio?    Heard no ticking at all much less come and go.

Did you check side shakes on fork arbour and staff pivots?

Regards

 

To be honest I didn't. I will read up on that subject as my knowledge is obviously lacking here. Would excessive side and end shake cause a variation to the ticking sound?

9 hours ago, jdm said:

Will you let me share another bit of advice. You will find that the high quality of this forum software allows easy, full and unhindered access to all features directly from a mobile browser.

Thanks JDM, I am giving that a go right now. Hope it works out better than using the app.

 

Edited by steve1811uk
.wav files didn't upload correctly
Posted
20 hours ago, steve1811uk said:

Any kind of music player that can play. Wav files

you're right it is a wave file but there's a problem downloading as the extension is missing. That means I needed to download it tell windows which program to open it and it opened it and I can play it. I've uploaded the files again I've added the wave extension hopefully there now playable for all of us.

it would've been nice if you had posted a file that reflected the problem you're observing versus two separate files. In other words one file where we hear normal ticking that drops to quiet and goes back to normal.

5 minutes ago, steve1811uk said:

To be honest I didn't. I will read up on that subject as my knowledge is obviously lacking here. Would excessive side and end shake cause a variation to the ticking sound?

as a reminder timing machines have microphones not capacitive microphones. Capacitive microphones are designed to pick up audio. Timing machine microphones typically piezo are designed to pick up the vibration of the watch ticking. They really do not want audio as typically that has background noise. Like in yours both of them have way too much background noise to the ticking itself. In the quiet version is that an airplane I hear at the beginning in the distance? basically to hear the ticking I have to crank the volume up and there's way too much background noise.

 

Normal2.wav Quiet3.wav

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • This was what I was afraid of. The movement is not one of the generic black square modules. Remove the movement from the clock and try prying it open very carefully, without breaking the plastic tabs. The plastic might be brittle from age. Clean the wheels and check the battery contacts for corrosion. Check the PCB for bad solder joints. Take plenty of photos along the way.
    • One of the problems with trying to Photograph Phils things are that his enjoyment was building these things so they tended to E falls on what will see if I can find some earlier pictures or any pictures I wasn't even sure because I was looking for that specific picture for somebody else and even it got the last version and that would have been the last version. You will note that he put the indexing on something that he could unscrew it or whatever and it can slide back out of the way so the rest of the lathe can be used as a lathe. With the lathe cut are actually coming down from the top I was there once where he demonstrated how to cut a pivot with the setup it was really beautiful. Older set up if I remember it's not a worm gear assembly in the thing in between the stepping motor and the holding block I believe this particular one was like a 100 to 1 gear ratio. Earlier version with watchmaker's lathe. Even looks like he is the watchmakers bed and then switch to something he made. Then I do have other pictures and things of the rotary stage in use. In the raw so if you tube videos here is an example of one were somebody's mounting a three jaw chuck. At one time there were available on eBay they were not cheap but if you're patient like I was I found one cheap on eBay. After you watch the video it look at his other videos he is a whole bunch of other examples of the same rotary stage. That I do know there are other pictures examples and possibly videos you just have to track them down. One of the minor issues of finding this particular tech sheet for the unit is I believe it was a custom manufacturer and the company change their name but I remember the new name here's a link to the company https://www.ondrivesus.com/rino-mechanical-components                
    • Escapement adjusting always interesting and depending upon the reference always confusing. Okay maybe it's not always confusing but it does lead to confusion. I have a PDF below it's actually a whole bunch of separate stuff including a hand out that came from a lecture that's on you tube. Then from that we get this image Consequences of doing things especially if you do things out of order or you do things for the wrong reason. Oh and even if the watches working I made the mistake one so showing my boss how tweaking the banking pins on a full plate on the timing machine made the amplitude get better and now he thinks that's what they're for and I don't think a fully grasped exactly what horn clearance means. Consequence of doing things. Notice what it says about opening and closing the banking pins and total lock? So yes I've had that on a full plate where it won't unlock at all and that's the banking pins or a combination of things basically. So banking pins unfortunately get moved. One of the ways to tell if it's been moved is the look straight down at the end of the fork with the balance wheel removed. Power on the fork push at the one side look at it push it to the other side also look at it and compare anything with the center reference the balance jewel and see if both sides of the same. No guarantee after the same there in the right place but at least are the same typically when people play with things one side will be way off from the other because they had no idea what they were doing at all because of course it's a full plate and you really have to paying attention and even then there's still hard to do. Then the other thing that comes up like it shows below is people often adjust the banking pins to do all those other things as opposed to horn clearance which is all that it's therefore and maybe bonus Guard pin clearance although you're supposed to deal with the guard pin is a separate thing like single roller gets bent in Or out or sometimes physically gets moved in and out. Some full plates older escapement's typically pallet forks held together with screws and you can actually unscrew and move the entire assembly in Or out more complications to deal with.     Escapement handout wostep nscc.pdf
    • If he was much younger and some sort of sports player it wouldn't be a problem. They would be in there and doing surgery and he'd be back on the field in no time. Unfortunately when you get older little things are bad and big things can be really bad so not good at all.
    • Where I work everything incoming watches whatever detailed descriptions are taken entered into a computer program and photograph of each item. Then ideally although it depends on who's doing the paperwork detailed descriptions can be quite good other times there lacking. Like I really like it with pocket watches if they would record the serial number it avoids confusion later on. Then when watch repairs are completed that is also entered in. It's one of the amusements I learned when I was in school instructor had a shop and commented about the important aspect of keeping detailed records of repairs. Because oftentimes a customer who got a new crystal will come back later on when the watch doesn't work and expect you to fix the entire watch for free. Then you can remind them that they just got a crystal. Strangely enough that keeps coming up or occasionally comes up where I work now. One of the problems of using the service marks on the case is that in the case of pocket watches oftentimes that's not the original case. Then case marks? What I was doing warranty work for a company I used to describe a code number in the back of the case and it would tell me the next time I see the watch that basically what I did I made no attempt at keeping track of customers because we had literally thousands of them I think they sold 30,000 of these watches and they would come back by the hundreds because they had a lifetime warranty. Yes that's a story all of itself but I would put a code number that would reference what was done to the watch the last time and think I had a date in there somehow so it did tell a story if you knew the code. Another shop I once worked out the number would reference the page in the book. So other than knowing we had been in there you would have no idea what happened because you have to go look at the page in the book to see what happened. Then the problem of how you examine a watch you should examine the watch in detail every single time to avoid complications. Although on vintage watches and this is a of amusement I have at work when people ask something and I say of the watches done when it leaves. This is because on vintage oftentimes problems won't show up until the watches much farther into the repair like it's now running and you discover things that you can't discover before because it wasn't running to discover them that also become sometimes difficult to have exact rigid prices are estimates of repairs or in the case of a pocket watch you may not find out if a casing problem to later on when you case it up in the watches running. I was just thinking for all those people that would like to leave a mark maybe you should learn to do what some of the past watchmakers did? Leave a mark but leave it in such a way that no one will ever find it? Typically not done for repair purposes but done for other reasons like identifying it's legit. I have a friend with a Gruen watch and one of the Roman numbers the bottom line that just looks like a line under extreme magnification actually says Gruen watch company or something equivalent. So here's a link showing how to mark your watch without being seen although that's not the actual title. So if you can learn micro engraving you can engrave the watch someplace probably just about any place you just have to remember where you put it. https://cnaluxury.channelnewsasia.com/obsessions/how-to-prove-if-watches-are-authentic-secret-signatures-182516  
×
×
  • Create New...