Keyless Works Problem

[margolisd]

I have a tricky keyless works issue which I can't seem to solve. This is an Omega 1030 movement (I've posted about it before). As you can see from the video, when you try to set the hands clockwise it goes "click click click" and the hands don't move. Anti-clockwise is fine. 

It's too difficult to film but I can see it is the clutch wheel teeth slipping over the intermediate wheel which drives the motion works. The intermediate wheel is attached to the date setting yolk. The story of this repair so far has been:

When I noticed the issue I found a broken tooth on the intermediate wheel. I had to replace the entire date setting yolk. But the issue remained.

Next I thought the cannon pinion was too tight. I tried a few techniques to loosen it but in the end I just replaced it. It's a brand new omega part and it feels just right, not too tight and not too loose. But the clicking remains.

So then I thought the clutch wheel was worn. I noticed it's not an original part. I replaced it. And also the date setting yolk spring as I thought maybe the tension was wrong. But still no luck!

The only other idea I have is that the clutch lever / set lever are worn and they're not quite pushing the clutch wheel up against the intermediate wheel enough. But before I mortgage my house to pay for more parts I thought I'd see if any of you had any ideas. Thanks for reading!

 

[margolisd]

Oh. I solved it. Two minutes after posting. The indicated plate has lost its spring. It's not pushing down enough on the date set yolk. A little bending with stout tweezers seems to have done the trick.

The process of posting here and documenting things makes you think very clearly about the problem. Just looking at my own photos gave me the idea! 

[margolisd]

Okay. Back to the drawing board. The problem has returned. I think by bending the plate slightly I was just gripping the date change yolk more. But the underlying problem was still there. The only thing I can think of is that the indicated area is worn and the lever is not being pushed as far left as it needs to go...

 

[yankeedog]

how is the stem?worn or out of square?

[HSL]

I have tried to replicate the error you describe but failed, the only thing what seems making sense is your first diagnose with the cannon pinion. Try to broach it slightly and oil it and see what happens.
Here is s shot of one of my candidates at trial run.. You can compare the positions of the keyless work.

[JohnR725]

What are you using to lubricate the setting parts?

1 hour ago, HSL said:

I have tried to replicate the error you describe but failed, the only thing what seems making sense is your first diagnose with the cannon pinion. Try to broach it slightly and oil it and see what happens.
Here is s shot of one of my candidates at trial run.. You can compare the positions of the keyless work.

In your Picture is the canon pinion circled?

[margolisd]

3 hours ago, yankeedog said:

how is the stem?worn or out of square?

The stem is new and original! It engages the clutch wheel perfectly (also new).

1 hour ago, HSL said:

I have tried to replicate the error you describe but failed, the only thing what seems making sense is your first diagnose with the cannon pinion. Try to broach it slightly and oil it and see what happens.
Here is s shot of one of my candidates at trial run.. You can compare the positions of the keyless work.

HSL. Great photo, thank you. It's so hard to tell on the positions because we may be talking a hair's width. Gentle pressure on the lever pushing it more left does stop the clicking (but I guess that's obvious!).

You see the line I've indicated on this picture? On my watch there is a slight gap. Is yours the same? Can you measure it?

28 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

What are you using to lubricate the setting parts?

9501

25 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

In your Picture is the canon pinion circled?

No, that's not the cannon pinion. It's actually in the centre.

[HSL]

38 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

In your Picture is the canon pinion circled?

lol.. no that's just a residue from my little investigation think it is the sweep second pinion which hold that lower gear in place when setting the time. I just have a habbit to mark the area I work with now I forgott to take it away..

[margolisd]

Sorry, that was a bad choice of picture to illustrate my query. It is the blue line I want to compare the measurement

[HSL]

Yes there is a distinct difference and you can see it by the arrow by the setting lever too, had a look at two more Genevas with 1030 and both are identical to my first picture. Your just seems to be worn down. 

[margolisd]

Ah, well spotted. I didn't notice that as well. I think time to replace the set lever and maybe the clutch lever too if that doesn't fix it!

Thanks for checking for me!

[HSL]

I have a 1030 I discarded because of some rust on the regulator and HS but it has a complete and nice keyless work... just in case you don't find all parts..

[margolisd]

Thanks but I located the parts for hardly anything on eBay. It has helped a lot. It's still not perfect. Weirdly, it was better with the old clutch wheel. I think the cannon pinion must be a tiny bit tight. I added some more grease which also heloed. Now the only time it clicks is when you set the hands far enough forward to advance the calendar wheel. But it's hardly noticeable. I think I'm going to call this completed.

[JONICURN]

I had this problem also.  Same symptoms.  Turned out i had both springs switched.   They are different links and when placed wrong, it wont allow the yoke to fully advance the clutch wheel into the setting wheel (click, click, click).  Make sure the longer spring is on 6 o'clock side and short spring is on 12 o'clock side.   

[JONICURN]

...and more importantly, that the hooks of the springs are not turned inversely. 

[PaulC]

Hi sorry to bounce this back but I had identical issue with the 1012 calibre. I had the springs wrong. Swapped them and now the hands wind cleanly one way but click click the reverse. I wondered if this was how it’s designed or do I still have an issue?

cheers Paul