Junghans Westminister Chimer mantel clock - Sherman no. 1777 chiming sync problem

[cduke]

Hello,

I have a nice Junghans Westminister Chiming mantel clock that runs fine but the chiming goes off at the wrong times and not on the hour, quarter or half.  There is no auto sync on this model and was wondering if anyone has experience correcting this?

Thanks

[clockboy]

Need a pic of the movement. The set up of the Westminster chime is important to achieve the correct sequence. The hour chime is just a matter of removing the hour hand and putting it back at the correct hour. 

[watchweasol]

Hi   As clockboy states a picture would he helpful, without the auto correction it will rely on the correct positioning of the warning wheel and associated levers and the count wheel so as you see it is quite complex therefore the request for the piccy

[clockboy]

I have a question how did it go out of sequence. 

[oldhippy]

2 hours ago, clockboy said:

I have a question how did it go out of sequence. 

What’s the betting the hands got turned back. I need to see the back plate before committing myself on how to set it right. Junghans made so many different types of movements.

[clockboy]

Agree the golden rule not to be broken with mechanical clocks. If it has not been taken out of the case then I suspect Oldhippy is correct. 

[cduke]

8 hours ago, clockboy said:

I have a question how did it go out of sequence. 

I acquired the clock at auction and this was the problem from the start.  Sorry if the Vegas bookies lost any money on this one.  It is a big deal for me to remove the movement with my skill level on speculation. Not knowing much about the workings of this clock, I wanted to see if there was a more obvious issue.

[cduke]

6 hours ago, oldhippy said:

What’s the betting the hands got turned back. I need to see the back plate before committing myself on how to set it right. Junghans made so many different types of movements.

 

Not looking for a commitment, only a first date.  I'll take a photo and if you don't like it, swipe left.

Thanks

[cduke]

Here are a few pictures as requested. Sorry for the orientation. I will rotate them as soon as I learn how.

[oldhippy]

Make sure the chiming and strike side are wound up. Westminster chime scale on the quarter past it chimes down the scale it also does that on the third and last part of the quarter too. So you need to loosen the screw that the red arrow is pointing at. Now where the green arrow is pointing, rotate that drum anti-clockwise until the hammers have gone down the scale, we will have that as the quarter past. Put the minute hand on at that point, so it is pointing at the three on the face of the dial. Tighten up the wheel. Move the hand to the half past and the hammers should operate. Make sure before the warning and after the chiming that none of the hammers lift, if any are you will need to loosen the wheel and move it by one tooth. At the quarter two on the last part of the chiming sequence, it will chime the same as the quarter past. You need to test it many times to make sure the hammers are behaving.

[clockboy]

Oldhippy will give the best advice on this one. However I must ask how have you removed the hands & dial without taking out of the case. 

[oldhippy]

As it was bought at auction, it could have been in pieces.

clockboy have you noticed the intermediate winding wheels in the going and the chime? Look how different the teeth are on the chime side that the click seats in. These sets of wheels can wear considerably because of the extremely strong springs. It is a poor design.  

[clockboy]

Yes I did notice. It's a new movement for me, never worked on one so it would have been a learning curve. 

[cduke]

Oldhippy,

Thank you so very much for your great and thoroughly explained advice!  I appreciate you taking time to write this reply. I will try to follow your advice and hopefully not mess it up.

On 10/20/2018 at 4:31 AM, clockboy said:

Oldhippy will give the best advice on this one. However I must ask how have you removed the hands & dial without taking out of the case. 

Removing the hands and dial were the easiest part of all.  The hands are  removed with a hob nail and the face is screwed to the case all of which are easily accessed from the from hinged glass door.  I wish I understood more about clock repair to understand why this seems like a difficult thing to do.

[cduke]

The only wrinkle with the chiming sync directions are that after the quarter past strike sequence, the hand cannot be positioned at 3 because the hand has a profiled center that allows it to fit on the hand shaft in only two positions. It cannot be rotated wherever you want it to be. It there a way to turn the shaft so that it can be made to point to the correct position?

thank you

[oldhippy]

Its been years since I repaired one of these, so I hope I’ve got it right this time.

Remove these parts, blue arrow and red arrow, the cam wheel is screwed on behind its face. I have marked the cam wheel showing the position it needs to be in. Put the minute hand on and move it to the 3 position. Now move the drum and watch the hammers, when they have gone down the scale, I would do this for at least 1 hour to make sure it is correct and all in line. If you are happy, put the cam wheel back on in the position that the minute hand is pointing to (I would pick the 3) and tighten up. Put the blue arrow part on, and test. Let me know how it works.

 

The front plate is a split plate. It is possible to remove the springs without taking the whole movement apart. If you need to remove, a spring be sure to use a good mainspring winder, as these springs are very powerful.  

[cduke]

Here are two photos with a few gears removed at the hand shaft.  The first photo 7235 shows the position of the minute hand at the 30 minute chiming.  The second photo  7237 shows the minute hand at the warning for 30 minute chiming.  As you can see it is about 4-5 minutes ahead.  Any ideas on how to correct?

Thanks

[clockboy]

Some hands are in a collet and you can twist the hand around using one of these. These tools are available for either square or round collects.