Is there such a thing as a Hairspring assortment?

[gmoodyii]

OK, I know this is a strange question but is there a source for an assortment of different sizes of hairsprings? I know the impossibilities of getting an exact match for a hairspring other from the same movement type but I am looking at a true experimental quest to make something that works.

I know there are still companies out there making hairsprings, just have not been able to find a source for bare hairsprings.

There are hairspring vibrators available on ebay, so I could theoretically attempt to learn how to use one of those.

Will this be sort of like finding a unicorn, my quest for a generic hairspring assortment?

I have one nerve left, just looking for a way to kill it.

[nickelsilver]

There used to be assortments of hairsprings based on balance diameter. They were iffy at best but they existed. These assortments pop up on ebay sometimes, as well as packs of springs in various CGS numbers and grades. This is really the only resource for hairsprings as the various current makers will only sell hundreds of a given CGS at a time.

[clockboy]

The only assortments are now on eBay. If you know its size then you can use this company. http://www.scotchwatch.com/Hairsprings.html

If you know it's strength and size and are confident in fitting a H/S to a collet there is this company.

http://www.britishprecisionsprings.co.uk/index.html

However this company is very slow with delivery and their sizing method is bit of a mystery. 

 

 

[transporter]

Clockboy, I was going to say British precision springs, although I've never used them as of yet, but i cant understand where I would find the information that they require, if you look at their site page for stock they are asking for strength and a few other bits that i have never heard of.

[clockboy]

I agree its a bit of luck to get the correct spring. I don't understand their measurements.

[gmoodyii]

Hey thanks for the responses!! I will give British precision springs a look, but at the moment there is an assortment of pocket watch hairsprings on ebay. Looks like they are possibly from India. Bid is at $5.00, my price range!!

[praezis]

Sure for pocket watch? I know there are hairsprings from India, but they are for alarm clocks!

Frank

[praezis]

I think you are better off with the first link. You will have to detemine the needed cgs anyway. This can be done with your balance wheel and any hairspring with known cgs.

The  British springs are from inappropriate material, good for clocks and instruments but notfor watches.

Frank

[clockboy]

I have ordered from British springs and they are excellent quality and they supply for watches as well as clocks. Not knowing what size to order I ordered several sizes and was lucky to choose correctly. Hairspring selection is not easy. The correct length and strength is critical. I found this on the net a few years ago it is an invaluable doc for selecting a H/S

 

Hairspring advise.docx

[Nucejoe]

5 hours ago, clockboy said:

I agree its a bit of luck to get the correct spring. I don't understand their measurements.

Hi, You don't understand?  The cgs?  Clarify please.

Regards

[Nucejoe]

4 hours ago, praezis said:

I think you are better off with the first link. You will have to detemine the needed cgs anyway. This can be done with your balance wheel and any hairspring with known cgs.

The  British springs are from inappropriate material, good for clocks and instruments but notfor watches.

Frank

Hi, You mean dtermine the cgs without use of ergometer?  Flying the H/S in your watch?  If you will please clarify/explain.

5 hours ago, clockboy said:

I agree its a bit of luck to get the correct spring. I don't understand their measurements.

Hi, You don't understand?  The cgs?  Clarify please.

Regards

[praezis]

37 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi, You don't understand?  The cgs?  Clarify please.

Regards

In fact British springs don't supply CGS. They give the torque at 100° rotated spring (or so...).

CGS is the gyroscopic moment at 53° rotation of a 1cm diameter spring.

Frank

 

[Nucejoe]

Right, the proper name is gyroscope.

Flying the h/s in the mvement with h/ of known cgs seems time consuming, I wounder if you are talking of an easier method.

Regards

[transporter]

am i going to make this really simple or have i got this completely wrong, I'm looking at this CGS malarkey on line, now C stands for centimetres as a unit of length, G stands for grams as a measurement of mass, and S stands for seconds a measurement of time.

now for C, is this the length of the hairspring?

and is G the weight of the hairspring on its own minus the collet and stud or with the collet and stud?

and S I'm completely stumped on how to work that  out apart from maybe 60 seconds, i have no idea???

so if we can work out the length of the hairspring (how do we do this?) and then weigh the hairspring on a pair of scales would this not give us two answers out of three for finding the correct CGS??? or have a tried to simplify some equation that cannot be simplified????

[praezis]

1 hour ago, transporter said:

am i going to make this really simple or have i got this completely wrong, I'm looking at this CGS malarkey on line, now C stands for centimetres as a unit of length, G stands for grams as a measurement of mass, and S stands for seconds a measurement of time.

Not quite so simple :-) You are right, CGS means a system with the above base units. CGS is also (mis)used for the number that determines a hairspring. Before 1940 springs were labelled "size" and "force", watchmakers had to use try and error to find the right spring. With CGS it became possible to calculate a  hairspring. 

It is difficult and imprecise to find the CGS from dimensions of a spring. Usually you find it by comparision with a spring of known CGS.

Frank

[praezis]

Attached a document to clarify my posts above.

Frank

 

CGS_INFOe.pdf

Edited September 19, 2018 by praezis

[transporter]

cheers mate i will study that as best i can

[Nucejoe]

5 hours ago, praezis said:

Not quite so simple :-) You are right, CGS means a system with the above base units. CGS is also (mis)used for the number that determines a hairspring. Before 1940 springs were labelled "size" and "force", watchmakers had to use try and error to find the right spring. With CGS it became possible to calculate a  hairspring. 

It is difficult and imprecise to find the CGS from dimensions of a spring. Usually you find it by comparision with a spring of known CGS.

Frank

Cgs is one variant of metric system, with cm, gr, sec as the base units, other systems namely MKS ..... are fundamentally the same using different size base units. These base units are used as constituent elements of other factors we deal with in daily life such as speed, acceleration, torque etc.

Dimentionally speed is distance over time ie cm/sec or ki!ometer per hour km/hr.

Static and dynamic factors/ functions are derived from these base units, for instance acceleration is distance over seconds square ie  accel  in terms of meter/ secconds to the second power. The unit of force in cgs is called dyne.

In study of rotation torque comes to picture and is derived from CROSS product of these units. 

The pertinent analytical calculations are exact. 

To eleminates such talk for repairman, measurement methods were deviced, instruments based on static and dynamic principles were made for direct measurement of what a watchmaker/ repairman needed to get the job done. The method is known to repairman as flying the h/s, to determine the required length of a given h/s which provides the interval within which the complete balance would resonate to desired frequency or in terms of beat.

Regards