Regulator doesn't regulate.

[Scouseget]

Hi, you'll be happy to hear it's warmed up considerably in Edmonton, it's now all of minus 13 degrees - where's my margarita?

I've just overhauled a 1908 Waltham, size 16S, open face pocket watch. It want reasonably well, though I had to cannibalize another old Waltham for replacement parts. I also fitted a new the balance staff.

Anyway, I do have a problem, which is regulating it accurately. I got the timing almost right, at least in the dial up position, by judicious use of timing screws. Final adjustment was going to be by the regulator, so t that end, I ensured the hairspring was located between the pins. What I then found was that this made no difference to the timing, well perhaps a fraction of a second. The hairspring is an overcoil type and the regulator pins act on the inner radius of the hairspring, i.e., the radius that the stud connects to the bridge at. The hairspring doesn't then gradually extend out to the outer coils but rather abruptly doglegs over at a pretty severe angle; I hope I've explained this ok. 

I'm sure I could get this running as accurately as a watch of this age is capable of, including in positions using the timing screws, however I would still like to have a regulator that actually regulates. Any suggestions you may have will be appreciated.

In a similar vein, I've noticed that very few old watches seem to behave themselves on the timing machine, I mean the traces are "noisy", as in all over the place, and frequently the timing machine will not establish the beat rate automatically, and won't lock in even when set manually at the traditional 18,000 BPH as it keeps resetting itself. This never occurs with newer watches so I'm wondering if it's just unrealistic to ever expect really old watches to run well enough for a timing machine to be of use. I usually simply time them using a stop watch over time and can usually get them to run reasonably accurately. Any thoughts on this issue?

[GeorgeC]

Hi, I’ve recently gone through a similar era Waltham 16s. I would look for hairspring rubbing either the bridge or the wheel. There may be a stray hair somewhere as well. I’m sure you’re aware of all of these possibilities but it dormant hurt to recheck under higher magnification.


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[noirrac1j]

It can be difficult for a watch as old as the one you're working on to give good readings on a timing machine. Sometimes it is better to simply let it run overnight and keep making minor adjustments against a stop watch until its within a decent range. @GeorgeC is correct about checking for rubbing and fouling on the hairspring. You don't mention how much error, but if its 3-4 minutes per day, I'd say that's  OK.

J

[khunter]

1 hour ago, noirrac1j said:

It can be difficult for a watch as old as the one you're working on to give good readings on a timing machine. Sometimes it is better to simply let it run overnight and keep making minor adjustments against a stop watch until its within a decent range. @GeorgeC is correct about checking for rubbing and fouling on the hairspring. You don't mention how much error, but if its 3-4 minutes per day, I'd say that's  OK.

J

Most of the work I do is on these old pocket watches, and I can say that getting a clean reading on a time machine IS possible, there are just a lot of things to look for. Rubbing of the hairspring is one, but the alignment of the spring within the regulator pins is a big one. The pins should not pinch the spring, it should sit between them with the tiniest of space on either side, throughout the movement of the regulator. Make sure the pins are perpendicular to the bridge, not angled in or out. Moving the regulator to its extremes should not significantly disturb the shape of the hairspring. It takes very small adjustments to get it all right, but I've done it, andI'm no where near a pro. Mark has a good video on adjusting hairsprings, I'd have a look.

Also getting the dial up/down positions aligned timing wise is the first step, and most of that is done with making sure the end shake is proper, and there are no parts binding in one position or the other. Sometimes with too much end shake the pallet fork will contact the roller table and cause crazy noise and erratic beat readings on the timer. It just takes time and patience but it can be tracked down. Here's a great website that covers the subject very well and thoroughly. 

adjustingvintagewatches.com

 

 

[JohnR725]

You had to cannibalize another watch for parts which parts did you take?

You said the hairspring is between the regulator pins how much spacing is between the pins?

Then maybe a different thought and approaches needed here. Simplistically you can't regulate until the watch is running well and has a reasonably decent image on the timing machine. So timing problem is one problem watch not running properly whole variety of reasons is another problem. Just because the balance wheel is moving doesn't mean you can regulate the watch and everything will be fine.

There isn't any reason why in ancient pocket watch can't keep time on a timing machine. It just requires a lot of effort at times to make that happen. Other times there very happy on the timing machine. But usually effort is required to get that remember they been out there for 100 years of people playing with them adjusting things moving things. Then there's just the basics like did you change the mainspring? A lot of people are scared of the mainspring and usually on pocket watches their set.

 

[GeorgeC]

You may have already performed this but, make sure to unscrew all balance cap jewel screws so you can separate and thoroughly clean those components and re-oil.   Look for any pits in the cap jewel or a broken hole jewel.  Are the pivot points of the staff in operable condition?  

[noirrac1j]

8 hours ago, khunter said:

adjustingvintagewatches.com

Nice. Thank you.

 

J