Manual Winding an Automatic Watch

[Khronos]

So what is the general advice about manual winding an automatic watch?  Are there any concerns?  I've had a half dozen or so fail on me due to hand winding them I guess.  For months they wind fine and then it feels like the gears start intermittently engaging.  I've not taken one apart that has failed yet but that's the plan.  I've had this happen on a new Swatch, older vintage stuff, other $200 or less watches.  It would be awesome to hear from you all about it.  Thanks a million!

[wls1971]

Manually winding an automatic should be of no detriment to the watch at all if it has had regular servicing. Any vintage auto could develop problems from not being serviced and manually winding, If the automatic gears have seized due to old oil hardening or no oil at all causing the rotor to spin as you manually wind putting strain on the gearing.

With autos I usually wind to the point of getting it running just a few turns of the crown then wear it as normal there should be no need to wind it fully via the crown.

[noirrac1j]

17 hours ago, wls1971 said:

Manually winding an automatic should be of no detriment to the watch at all if it has had regular servicing. Any vintage auto could develop problems from not being serviced and manually winding, If the automatic gears have seized due to old oil hardening or no oil at all causing the rotor to spin as you manually wind putting strain on the gearing.

With autos I usually wind to the point of getting it running just a few turns of the crown then wear it as normal there should be no need to wind it fully via the crown.

Ditto.

 

J

[Khronos]

Okay, thanks for the input, more info... with the new Swatch (Body & Soul) the rotor spin is exactly what happened.  That was after only a few months of winding it manually.  Some clarification here.  I keep maybe 50 watches running.  I like them!    I wind a bunch of clocks daily as well.  Anyway, the few automatics that I wind daily have just about all failed except the vintage Timex ones.  Go figure.  The typical failure for me has been what feels like gear tooth breakage.  I'll know more today after I tear a couple of these apart.  Granted, one is a Chinese watch movement so that's kind of big so what, but I have a ladies Seiko that did the same thing (2706 movement), and another vintage ladies Waltham that has the same kind of issues as the Seiko.  So that's the background.  They were in fact daily winders.  I would wind them about 20-25 times and they just worked and I enjoyed. 

Anyway, I originally had the same opinion you all do but now I'm questioning myself.  I'll update after I know exactly what has failed in them.  Thank you for commenting.

[jdm]

It could be (I have no evidence), that manual winding gear on automatics tends to be undersized, as that function supposedly is rarely needed. But I know for a fact that on that's on e.g. Seiko 4R36 is not so, while the similar 6R15 has more moving parts so it's possibly more prone to failure.

Anyway, if you don't wear your watches, do not wind them. There is no gain whatsoever in doing so except saving 20 seconds in setting time and date when taking them out. But that is the same time you would spend every day or two for manual winding on replacing on the winder machine. 

[Khronos]

Hi JDM, thanks for the reply.  Yes, you were spot on for the Chinese movement.  The winding gear is just flat wore out.  Pretty weird that the metal is so soft.    I suspect, as you suggest, that they are not expecting people to manual wind an automatic.   The castle gear still looks very good.

As a side note, I baby sit over a hundred Linux computer servers, work from home, and my desk is covered with many different kinds of watches, clocks, and pocket watches.  I just like to watch them tick during my baby sitting job.    I guess technically, I'm a watch movement collector.  Anyway, I was not wearing these watches.  I was watching them run.     But, you give good advice... I'll stop winding the ones I want to wear and use.  Thanks JDM and best wishes.

P.S.: I'll report back, time permitting, on the Seiko and Waltham.

[JerseyMo]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 5:11 PM, Khronos said:

Okay, thanks for the input, more info... with the new Swatch (Body & Soul) the rotor spin is exactly what happened.  That was after only a few months of winding it manually.  Some clarification here.  I keep maybe 50 watches running.  I like them!    I wind a bunch of clocks daily as well.  Anyway, the few automatics that I wind daily have just about all failed except the vintage Timex ones.  Go figure.  The typical failure for me has been what feels like gear tooth breakage.  I'll know more today after I tear a couple of these apart.  Granted, one is a Chinese watch movement so that's kind of big so what, but I have a ladies Seiko that did the same thing (2706 movement), and another vintage ladies Waltham that has the same kind of issues as the Seiko.  So that's the background.  They were in fact daily winders.  I would wind them about 20-25 times and they just worked and I enjoyed. 

Anyway, I originally had the same opinion you all do but now I'm questioning myself.  I'll update after I know exactly what has failed in them.  Thank you for commenting.

Are you referring to the new Timex automatics or the vintage models?  For the vintage models Timex did suggest widing them before wearing.  The one part that is the most prone to failure or wear is the winding rotor.  Mostly you will hear them chatter as they turn.

Very simple to fix by using a center punch to peen down the center rivet.  Just use a light tap.