Diashock: Seiko Shock Protection Advise Needed

[bobm12]

Dear forum members,

 

I've acquired several Seiko watches I'm restoring. Although I haven't done so with the first movement that came out from the lot, I'd very much like to disassemble the Diashock on the plates to do a more, thorough cleaning and lube. The system used by Seiko is not as "user/tool friendly" as the several Incablock solutions out there -- I can deal with them with minimal problem - and there is not a tool I could find in my Internet search.

 

Has any one have any luck by assembling back this system? Is there a tool we can either buy or make? Is there a procedure for this operation?

 

I appreciate your input and thank you in advance for your help.

 

Robert

 

PS.

The movement is the 7S26/7S36 using the rectangular Diashock.

 

[Geo]

Hi Robert, I would have thought that two pieces of peg wood cut to a chisel shape with a small notch cut out would have let you fit them.

I always have my pegwood point at one end and chisel at the other.

Just a thought!

Edited July 7, 2014 by Geo

[bobm12]

Thanks for the help Geo, I'll try that.

 

Also I'll first prepare -- with a really transparent nylon bag -- a parts catcher just in case. Those springs are anxious to run away the moment you loose them up a little. They fit in under tension. This tension bends them outwards in the center so when an end is free they just happily hop into neverland. When inserting them back it is kind of a struggle to have them acquire the proper bend to hold the jewel (another slippery critter) and fit them in the grove at the same time.

 

I'll post the outcome as soon as everything is in place.

 

Robert

[matabog]

:) Please do not laugh! I had a similar problem with a novodiac (clover shaped) antishock. Didn't have the money for the special tool so I used a paper clip. Meaning the outer plastic shell. It was about 1.5-2mm in diameter and had the right flexibility in it to "mold" on the spring... and surprise! I got it out. When I put it back, I just placed the spring on position, said a prayer, pushed down the plastic thingy and turn the whole movement holding in place the plastic. And there it was happy in its place.

 Of course, the oiling is done like with any-other antishock.

 

Good luck!

 

The spring is less likely to fly because you hold it down with the plastic... or I don't know, maybe I was lucky! :)

[bobm12]

Excellent and thank you matbog, good idea. I will be testing both systems soon. I ran into some trouble...I lost the lower jewel and I'm waiting for a replacement! I will make a report on this as soon as I set up again.

 

Robert.

[Blacklab]

Ahh... the barsteward that is the Seiko 2 legged Diafix. The standard 3 legged versions of Diafix and Diashock work fine, however this particular one can be a real pig and is best left well alone. I have just had a problem with one resulting in a lost cap jewel and have given up and bought another movement to replace the train bridge. This system didn't really serve any purpose apart from upping the jewel count.

[matabog]

I was playing (that's how I call it) with a Seiko 2206A - smallest automatic movement I've handled so far. And of course my cheap tweezers snapped and the hollowed jewel flew "somewhere". After half an hour kneeing around the kitchen I decided to try a  hollowed jewel from a russian Wostok. Don't be surprised when I am telling you it worked. Not COSC obviously, but for just playing, it worked. So then I continued. And of course, it was "that day"... and the clutch wheel also flew away, somewhere behind me, with a metallic sound... After another 30 minutes of kneeing with my trusworthy cheap led flashlight... I was full of resentment. I gathered my tools, put the movement back in the cheap organizing box and left the kitchen....

 

But I am trying to make a point, not only make you laugh!

 

I returned after 30 minutes of watching tv - actually calculating trajectories and probabilities of ever finding those two  little things again, And I decided to sweep the entire kitchen. And I **BLEEP** you not: I found those two in the (small) pile of dirt. 

 

So, my advise: Sweep your work area and cross your fingers! 

Your Lower jewel didn't dissapear to the other side... it lies somewhere around you and laughs... a diabolic laugh - at least that's how I imagine it.

[bobm12]

Thank you guys,

 

Blacklab: I usually don't bother with those but I figure that at some point I had to play with it. Bad idea! I ordered another movement from the bay.

 

matabog: LOL, You are so right, I can hear it laughing at night! It happened right after my posting here. I hope my wife has not used the vacuum in that room yet. Unluckily for me, it was the lower part of the assembly that got lost, I have the spring and the cap jewel I wonder if I could use some ETA incablock parts I got around the shop...I'll get back on this one.

Edited July 8, 2014 by bobm12

[Geo]

Your Lower jewel didn't dissapear to the other side... it lies somewhere around you and laughs... a diabolic laugh - at least that's how I imagine it.

I've got a brand new Seiko crown probably down the back of my work bench sitting giggling at me. I even tried the "Buy a new one and it's sure to turn up tactic"......................but it didn't. :-(

[bobm12]

Geo, is that the one for the chronometer? I remember one of your posts you had lost a crown. In my case, I keep a statistics. I know that I can only have 4 parts lost at one time. Once the 5th is lost one of the other 4 reappears! Of course, the count re-starts once my wife vacuums...Now, who is going to tell her not to?!

[Geo]

That's the one Robert.

I've lost things that are that small you would hardly feel them if they were in your eye, but always managed to find them, but not this crown.

[bobm12]

I know the feeling, I opened a main spring barrel to service the spring and next thing I know, the spring jumped out and there I am holding the pivot, the lid on the workbench and the main housing lost propelled by the spring (the spring I found quickly). I haven't found that part yet!

 

I use a magnet to find lost parts. It is one of those used in the kitchen to hold knives and stuff. It has found many big and small part for me but this time it has failed to do its job.

[matabog]

... regarding the paper clip method of taking out and putting back a Novodiac spring... I managed last night to brake one... not the paperclip, but the Novodiac Spring. My luck was that it was only one corner out of the three, the other two appeared to be holding the jewels in place.

 

So, take care!

[Mark]

Taking these out is surprisingly easy. I use a screwdriver believe it or not.

Putting them back in is a little more tricky. My method is to place the spring in situ and then I use two pairs of tweezers to apply pressure to both sides simultaneously and then turn the spring slowly until the spring is under the lip.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matabog]

I totally agree with you, I would do the same, at least this is how I did it on a Citizen 8200A. But I was referring to the Novodiac spring - it has three corners and three grooves to fill - not like Seiko which also has three corners but only one groove.

Edited July 22, 2014 by matabog

[Mark]

The kif tools are useful in that case. I can't remember the last time I did a seiko but I have a few scrapers I will take a look at later

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matabog]

yeah... in Romania we use paper clips... :))) we are very skilful... well, most of us...

[bobm12]

Thank you guys, I will definitely try Mark's 2 tweezers method. I lost the bottom jewel trying, most people lose the spring....just my luck. I believe I can make an older model Seiko jewel work for that part. I was just giving this task a rest for more "quiet" days (mostly week ends without activities). This is probably the most trying task I've ever tried on a watch so it needs lots of time and an exceedingly peaceful environment! For the first time I won't be having my kids around to do this operation with me.  :(

[bobm12]

I finally got around to do this spring. In brief, the lower jewel was lost at some point and it was replaced with one from another older plate (the ones with the 3 diashock lobes).

 

To make the story short, those jewels are interchangeable (older and newer) as long as you have the right spring which I didn't lose.

 

The method that works the best was Mark's with the 2 tweezers.

 

Not for lack of tweezers but out of laziness, I used 2 #3 tweezers I got as a promotion (free!). I also grabbed the bag where those tweezers came in -- along with other goodies (big sealable bag) -- and cut the bottom off. I used the bag as a parts catcher...and I didn't even need to catch a part!

 

Knowledge gained from the above: The two tweezers system works easily and perfectly!

 

Thank you Mark, awesome trick! Soon I'll make another watch happy!

[emso]

I use a pegwood,make it a round with diameter as the jewel spring.

Make a round dimple on top of it and use it by rotating it. The pegwoods ends make the end of the springsgo under the shim

br

emso

p.s: sent from my s****y phone so sorry for typing mistakes :-)

[bobm12]

Thank you emso, I'll try that next.

[Lawson]

 Didn't have the money for the special tool so I used a paper clip. Meaning the outer plastic shell.

 

Matabog, this works a treat mate!

 

I used it in my 7S26A service, and it saved a lot of hassles ... thanks heaps :jig:

[Lawson]

After a LOT of research and reading, here's what I've found Bob ... and you are going to love it.

 

I saw a post with these three pics .... it's THE TOOLS for the Seiko Diashock and Trishock System!!!  Yeah baby!!

 

 

Only problem was he didn't/wouldn't say what they were.  And so the hunt begins...

 

Remember I've been in the IT industry for 22yrs, and have a few tricks in my bag.  So I enhanced the photo, inverted the colours, and altered the YGB of the photo of the complete tool, so that I could read the markings on the side of the holder.

It reads:

"2.00 Bergeon 30610"

 

It's a 2mm Bergeon Barrel Arbor Holder

Here's the picture of the boxed product

 

 

And the cheapest place to buy it is here, that I've found so far:

http://watchmakingblog.com/opencart/upload/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=475

 

Next were the attachments and I had nothing to go on but the pictures.

Until I came across this article ... but all it says is to file a piece of pegwood to shape  ... Arghhhhh!

 

 

BUT ... instead of Diashock or Trishock, it said KIF

BINGO!  That was the nugget I needed for a search term ... and Booya!

 

 

Buy them at Cousins in the UK

https://www.cousinsuk.com/catalog/tools/jewelling-tools-for-bergeon-kif-inca-seitz/kif-shockspring-tool

 

... Annnnnnnd my work here is done B)

[Mark]

The kif tools are what I use - I mentioned this further up the thread ;)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lawson]

Need links for us dummies Mark :P

 

BTW, any of my English Cobbers wanna buy these for me from Cousins, and send them standard Royal Post, and I'll gladly payal you the funds ... Their delivery costs are crazy!!