Marvin - dial to movement advice

[WatchMaker]

I've acquired a rather nice Marvin dial, hands and case. I bought this without an accompanying movement and the buyer did not know the movement it came with originally.

The dial size and feet position make me think this must have come from an 11.5''' watch and the big clue is there on the dial that it came from an automatic. If I look on ranfft however then, whilst Marvin have a number of movements attributed to them, there are no automatic movements.

Trying to track down information on 'bought in' movements Marvin used doesn't seem straightforward. I have found a picture of a Marvin automatic '776' movement but no idea what that is based on. Trying to play snap with ranfft it looks very much like an ETA 2783 but that's no joy with the dial feet position.

Any ideas how I can match this up?! Anyone with Marvin experience out there?!

Plan B would be to find a different movement altogether but soldering on new dial feet? ... yikes that's something I don't have the experience of or can justify buying a dial foot soldering machine for! Would be happy to pay for this though if anyone can recommend someone.

Edited December 6, 2016 by WatchMaker

[wls1971]

Any clues on the watch case such as model number engraved on or inside the watch case ?

[WatchMaker]

 Oops. Thanks wls1971.

The case back had the original protection Marvin sticker on. I was concentrating so much on the dial I didn't look past that. Having carefully removed the sticker I can see the numbers:

4  538.851

[rogart63]

17 hours ago, WatchMaker said:

I've acquired a rather nice Marvin dial, hands and case. I bought this without an accompanying movement and the buyer did not know the movement it came with originally.

The dial size and feet position make me think this must have come from an 11.5''' watch and the big clue is there on the dial that it came from an automatic. If I look on ranfft however then, whilst Marvin have a number of movements attributed to them, there are no automatic movements.

Trying to track down information on 'bought in' movements Marvin used doesn't seem straightforward. I have found a picture of a Marvin automatic '776' movement but no idea what that is based on. Trying to play snap with ranfft it looks very much like an ETA 2783 but that's no joy with the dial feet position.

Any ideas how I can match this up?! Anyone with Marvin experience out there?!

Plan B would be to find a different movement altogether but soldering on new dial feet? ... yikes that's something I don't have the experience of or can justify buying a dial foot soldering machine for! Would be happy to pay for this though if anyone can recommend someone.

Can't be a ETA 2783? The dial feet should be sitting at cirkus  2 and 4. 

[anilv]

I would hazard a guess that an AS 1700/01 movement would fit.

Here's a dial for an AS1700/01 from a Rado Green Horse.. as you can see, one dial foot is slight before 12 (as viewed from the front and the other one is slightly before 6.

Hope this helps!

Anil

 

[WatchMaker]

Hi rogart63 - I agree this is not an ETA 2783. I was just mentioning that the only pictures I'd been able to find of a Marvin automatic, with a movement clearly identified, was of a '776' and this looked like a 2783 but, totally agree, the dial feet preclude this.

BUT

Hi Anil - you absolute star! That's got to be it! I'd given up hope of identifying the movement for the dial and was going for Plan B but I will now be on the hunt for said AS 1700/01 instead. Thank you so much.

[As an aside that Rado dial is interesting; that looks distinctly like a jewel at the 3 o'clock position in your picture!]

[wls1971]

The movement used in the model you have is a marvin 580c which was common in the Flying Dutchman model,

http://s1020.photobucket.com/user/Achraf_03/media/MARVIN/Marvin automatic 580C/MarvinautomaticNOScal580C-2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

As far as I know this was Marvins own inhouse movement and not shared with other manufactures

 

Wayne

[WatchMaker]

Hi Wayne - Wow! Your detective skills are obviously far superior to mine. I didn't post this forum question without doing quite a bit of looking around myself first but I never came across what you've managed to track down. And that has to be it! Thank you very much. 

So Plan A is now to try and seek out a 580C. Plan B if, as I suspect, the 580C is elusive or silly money is to go for hopefully an easier to find AS 1700. A distant Plan C is plucking up the courage to do some feet soldering for a more common 11.5''' movement! [I could use dial glue dots but I'll probably get banned from the forum for even suggesting that ... !  ].

[anilv]

Hi Watchmaker,

Rado had an unique 'feature' on their automatic watches where the anchor emblem was mounted on a ruby via a central pin which allowed the anchor to rotate...similar to the automatic weight. This additional jewel also meant they could add another jewel to the jewel count.

I think I have a 1700 movement somewhere.. will try to post some pictures of the holes for the dial feet...dial should be there as well.

Looks like the Marvin 580 is a likelier candidate but not much info on the web about this movement so good luck finding one!

Anil

[WatchMaker]

I hear you on the "not much info on the web...".

I'll keep a look out for a 580C but I'm not looking to be a purist here; the case and dial are nice enough that if I have a half decent movement in there I'll be happy ... and the 1700 movement would seem to fit the bill. I appreciate your help and advice on that.

Very interesting re. the Rado - I hadn't come across that before but will keep a look out. I gave a wry smile regarding the jewel count as I have in my collection a '57 Jewel' Delbana but think they must have got someone in whose counting skills weren't that good...!