Help with a family problem watch please?

[Hullblazer]

Hi all

My sister has an old watch, working, that needs repair and/or servicing.  What she doesn't want to do is spend more on fixing than the watch would be worth and, as we know nothing much about the item, we'd love some help determining what it is and who made it.

Pictures follow but what we do know is this; the case is platinum or platinum plated and the gems are diamond chips.  My father is an ex-jewellery trader (market stall stylee) and has tested the metal chemically and the gems with "a device" he has used for years (I'm an accountant, I don't know).  Oh, have I said it works?  With one of its hands missing, it's hard to determine its accuracy.  Yes, I know the crown is wrong!

Can anyone help with maker/make, mechanism, age, jewel number or anything else that might narrow our search on determining serviceability?

[vinn3]

conspicitivly not marked.   did you  fine any numbers or script on the movement?

[Hullblazer]

No, I am sorry, I have found nothing - unusual, yes?

[Geo]

Refurbishing the watch would make a good little project as it looks like a reasonably good movement.  If you remove the hand and dial, you may find a makers mark on that side of the movement.  There does appear to be a mark underneath the balance wheel.

It looks like it will possibly have nine jewels if you include the roller jewel.

[Geo]

I've just done a wee bit of research and it appears to be a Baume Mercier BM375 17 jewel movement.

[jdm]

Here you're faced with a major in vintage  -and even contemporary- watch market, which is: ladies watches.
These, unfortunately, are much less marketable than men's watches. Say, at least one half of that that, or less. 
What that means? Sorry I'll be brutal

• If the case / bracelet are in gold - as well genuine diamonds, it will be worth weight value, but your is not.
• If a movement if valuable that will be perhaps 50 euros max.
• Cost of refurbish, same or higher than a men watch.
• Fashion appeal for a today lady? Very, very small.

Draw you own conclusion. Any work/money spent on ladies watch is probably justified only by sentimental value.

[Hullblazer]

Thank you all.  Whilst I will dig out my USB Microscope and check for those digits, it would appear to be what I thought: "Sis, do you like it enough to splash the cash?  Then wear it, enjoy it, and forget the money".

Specifically to jdm:  Thank you.  As a qualified accountant I have too many acquaintances who beat-around-the-bush.  There is little I appreciate more (anyone remember sex?) than "straight from the hip" and I appreciate your clarity.

 

[oldhippy]

It’s a lady’s dress watch and it looks like a replacement movement. I can recall that type of movement could have been an F H F cal 59. The button is a dustproof type and is correct with the type of case as this shape is well known for letting dirt and dust in. Why do I think it’s a replacement because going by the photos there’s no marks on the modern screw heads which aren’t flat top, old ones would be, no marks on the plates and the balance is modern the original balance would have balance screws. This type of style dates around the 1930’s. With a platinum case and diamond chips it’s definitely worth having it repaired.   

[Hullblazer]

That's fantastic, oldhippy, thank you!

[jdm]

52 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

With a platinum case and diamond chips it’s definitely worth having it repaired.   

Sorry, "worth to be repaired" in which sense? Monetary or for the sake of preservation of luxury vintage? Because I think that after a redial job (say GBP 200) which takes a collecotr 20 seconds to spot, with a replaced movement as you skillfully indicated, how much this would be worth? For the sake of research here's an example oof B&M 1930 asking pirce $1950
http://www.chrono24.com/en/baumemercier/art-deco-full-gold-18kdiamonds-year-1930-very-rare--id4972548.htm

I think thank things have to be put in realistic prospective.

[oldhippy]

I’ve been out of this business far too long to be able to give a price on the value on such an item. My advice would be to take it to at least 3 antique dealers and get their advice on prices.  

[diveboy]

as a collector of Ladies watches, your not going to want to know.

pretty much you won't get the money you put into it back unless its something very deco in style and thats because deco collectors will drive the price up (elgin & gruens of the period with color enamel).

you'll most likely get scrap value if you're lucky. if it has no sentimental value, list it on fleabay as is and let someone else deal with it. 

 

Platinums of the period I've seen go as low as USD$120 - just try pick up a mens for that price!

Edited October 24, 2016 by diveboy

[Hullblazer]

I can get it professionally serviced/repaired for £240 via a family friend so it really does fall down to how much she likes the item as a talking piece!

[oldhippy]

£240 That is a stupid price and a complete rip off. Its a simple movement but small and needs a clean and a matching replacement hand.

If it went to auction it depends on if there's competition for it. It would be best if it went to an auction that holds a clock and watch auction.

[Hullblazer]

Well, that price is what he turns a Rolex around in, so I guesstimated!  Good thought on the auction hose though, thank you.

[oldhippy]

Fair enough for a Rolex. What you have is nothing like a Rolex movement. Apart from it being small it is just a Swiss 15 jewel movement and they are very easy to clean and oil.

[wls1971]

Ladies watches just dont sell especially watches of that era they are just too small for todays market, I had a ladies Omega 9ct gold watch dating from the early 70's a really nice watch quality movement and good condition looked after and no doubt cherished by the original owner, bearing in mind that modern ladies gold Omegas are in the 10's of thousand now how much would you value a 1970's solid gold one at ? well it's quite simple really scrap, thats all you can get for them, in my case that was £280.00 being on a solid bracelet and weighing 26 gramms without the movement.Of course there are exceptions to this such as rarity or make but most gold ladies watch are worth scrap.

I could have stuck it on ebay at £350.00 but it would not have sold look at how many there are on ebay as apposed to how many actually sell and the picture becomes clear.

The watch you have is typical of the period 1920-1930, as already stated the movement is not the original no ladies watch of that period would have had shock protection it  is what you would expect to find in a make such as Rotary in the 60's

If the watch has sentimental value and your sister actually wants to wear it then get it repaired and enjoy it. But it's value is nothing more than the weight of the platinum if indeed it is platinum, no value can be put on the diamond chips thay are worthless, so in the watch case removing movement strap and glass you will probably have 4 or 5 grams of platinum currently around £18.00 a gram depending on purity thats it's worth.

[Hullblazer]

I agree, it is quite shocking that there is no value in ladies watches:  surely they are similarly made and, being smaller, more fiddly?

[oldhippy]

Don't give up hope. What is popular today won't be in a few years. You know what they say, what goes around comes around. 

[WileyDave]

Ladies watches have always been a fashion statement (IMHO), too $%#@ small to read what time it is!, more for the cocktail party conversation.

21 hours ago, Hullblazer said:

What she doesn't want to do is spend more on fixing than the watch would be worth

I'd ask myself, "worth to whom"? 

The case should be hallmarked "850-999" to be solid platinum, I doubt they would put real diamonds, (chips or not) in anything less. I could be wrong.

Many years back I threw about $100 usd at my great grandmothers watch, a swiss made "Deuber-Hampden", Nothing special as far as movement, 15j + 2adj, aside from the fact they did not make many of these and it's in a 14k Deuber case. (and it was great grannys watch)  It sits in my safe, unworn and unloved, by anyone but me.

What's it worth?, to me it's priceless, there is probably not another like it to be found.

6 hours ago, Hullblazer said:

I can get it professionally serviced/repaired for £240 via a family friend so it really does fall down to how much she likes the item as a talking piece!

The only thing I could suggest if your sister really wants to wear it regularly and cost is a factor, the case could be professionally fitted with NOS quartz movement, which would give her longevity without the winding. Just a suggestion, please don't hate me for it, some will argue that it's not original and should not be done and I would agree.... in 9 out of 10 cases.

240 pounds can buy an awful lot of quartz, good luck and I would have great interest on your decision.

 

[oldhippy]

If the case was made abroad there's a chance you might not find a hallmark. You can never put a price on sentimental value. Diamond chips are from real diamonds.

[wls1971]

3 hours ago, Hullblazer said:

I agree, it is quite shocking that there is no value in ladies watches:  surely they are similarly made and, being smaller, more fiddly?

No doubt a good ladies watch is made to the same high standard as any good gents watch and is no less expensive to buy new, but there are not many collectors of ladies watches. I had a similar conversation with the jeweller I scrapped the Omega with he told me if it isnt Rolex or a fairley new watch he cant sell them and to prove his point he showed me a shoe box sized container of ladies watch movements all coming from scrapped watches he'd taken in.

If there is no sentiment attached to the watch it makes no sense to repair. Its a reality but to any watch lover it is a shame,

If you want to know if the case is platinum quite a lot of pawnbrokers use gold analyzers now and dont need to do scratch tests they would do this for nothing.

Couldnt you have ago at servicing it yourself ?

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by wls1971

[Hullblazer]

No,  I have never serviced a watch and am waiting for some absolute "no sales" from my eBay collection to build a pile of "teach yourself" mechanisms.