timegrapher readings

[parmenion31]

Hi all ,

I recently bought my first timegrapher , i have watched many times marks videos about it and how to adjust.

My question is what means if i get various readings in one minute period and how many ms are "acceptable" in the timegraphers reading.

At my videos seiko 5 watch i get +6sd , +14sd ,and  -1 sd readings during a minute.i suspect that means i havent clean well or something ( pallet fork or escape wheell or something else) has a problem and have to start my detective job haha.

Since many of you have this machine long time i would appreciate some help.Thanks for your time

20161006_110341.mp4

[jdm]

18 minutes ago, parmenion31 said:

At my videos seiko 5 watch i get +6sd , +14sd ,and  -1 sd readings during a minute.i suspect that means i havent clean well or something ( pallet fork or escape wheell or something else) has a problem and have to start my detective job haha.

Can you post few pictures? Videos are large to handle as attachment, better to upload to a dedicated platforum.

[Cad101]

Looking at your vid the first thing i notice is your amplitude is low and the graph line is very erratic to start with have you de-magnatised the movement have you checked all pivots while cleaning making sure none are too worn or bent is the hairspring catching anywhere Low amplitude is usually something to do with the amount of power being transfered through the gear train and not kicking the balance wheel round with enough power seikos are usually have a lower amplitude but not that low I would check again all pivots and pivot holes are spotless.

[parmenion31]

Sure jdm i will upload some photos in couple hours (forgot phone at home) , and thanks a lot cad , i got some detective job to do haha.

[jdm]

Low amplitude on 7S26 is a common problem which is very difficult to correct. Happened to me quite a few times and cleaning things again and again did not helped of course. Neither replacing the main spring or barrel complete did help. I think it has more to do with 1. Having a perfectly shaped hairspring in order to deliver the maximum elastic impulse to the balance, and 2. The ideal angle and depth of the pallet stones. Both things are very difficult to get right for a beginner.

[rodabod]

Also be careful holding your phone near the timegrapher as you will get noticeable interference.

 

I agree wit the others: get the amplitude up (was it fully wound?) and then start making judgments.

[jdm]

Here's a typical case I have got today, Seiko 6R15 which should be just 4 years old:

 

Again, in my experience "cleanliness", magnetization, or interference have nothing to do with the problem. I will service this and I hope I can get it to normal, but sometime all one gets is a 20 deg. improvement, not enough when starting at 155.
In these cases unless the owner is OK with crappy and unpredictable timekeeping, all what can be done is swapping with for new movement, or try replacing escapement and balance.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by jdm

[parmenion31]

Thank you all , you all helped , here some pictures promised to jdm.

Just now learning that amplitude is so serious, i was just focusing in hairspring adjustmunt and beat error.

I think no one answered how many ms are "acceptable" as an error.

For rodabob:   The watch needed a good cleaning , wasnt beating at all, was dead . I found nothing broken or marks of abusing.

[jdm]

9 minutes ago, parmenion31 said:

I think no one answered how many ms are "acceptable" as an error.

On current Seikos, approx 200 deg. is the very minimum. Swiss / better movements, 230. The more demanding the watchmaker, the higher the value.

NB: No need for you to struggle showing the actual movement on the machine.
I do that on selling pictures to show that is genuine

Edited October 6, 2016 by jdm

[Cad101]

The M/s beat error is entirely up to you but with a better amplitude you should be able to adjust it nearer 0.0 but if your adjusting face down to 0.0 then face up will be different same as crown up and down will be different its all about finding that sweet spot in all positions no watch ever runs at 0.0 beat error in all positions you have to remember there's friction gravity and temperature to take into place too.

[parmenion31]

Well , from what i see i regret that i didnt had a timegrapher , helps a lot ,and around 150 euros i bought it isnt expensive for the job it does.

And jdm acceptable as an error i meant the 1.2ms beat error on the pictures not the amplitude or its the same?

[clockboy]

Generally the recommended maximum M/S out of beat is 0.4ms

[parmenion31]

Thank you all , so many usufull info from this machine , its awesome!