Lathe - the next logical step?

[Scouseget]

As I've bought the usual collection of watchmaker's tools up to and including a full staking set, I'm wondering if the next logical step is to acquire a lathe? Do most committed watch repairers progress to the point where such an acquisition is the norm? Is it possible to take on any repair without a lathe or must you have one for certain repairs? if you don't have one, what if such things as balance staffs are not available for a watch you're repairing? Related to this of course is the issue of how long does it take to become proficient in making say a balance staff - are we talking weeks, months, or years? Is it always possible to become proficient enough, with lots of practice, to master it to the point of being able to manufacture whatever is usually doable on a lathe, say a balance staff?

The price of even old and battered looking lathes is scary frankly ($1000 or more), and then there's the extras that are needed for it, such as collets. For the average repairer then, is it worth getting one given how infrequently it will need to be used, or is it that once you have one, you find all sorts of jobs that can be done with it thus lessening the need to buy certain parts? 

[stevewheeler]

Great comment/question. I am very similar in watchmaking experience to you but when I think of the word lathe I visualise the machines we had in metal work lessons in school, they were about the size of my car. I am sure there are smaller versions now, maybe Mark could do a video showing his and what he would recommend. Please Mark?

[Marc]

I don't think that there is an easy answer to your question. It comes down to a combination of what you want to achieve, your skill level, your imagination, determination, ingenuity, etc. One school of thought says that a good idea is to start with a watchmakers turns rather than a lathe. They are cheaper, simpler, slower (which means more control and fewer accidents), and because you are turning between centres, very precise. 

On the other hand a lathe is quicker and requires a little less patience, but with the risk that if things go wrong they do so very quickly. 

As far as cost goes there are bargains to be had. I managed to pick up a BTM 8mm lathe, and a Lorch 6mm lathe for £60 for the pair. There was just 1 collet in each lathe, and both machines looked rough. The bearings however were good, and the beds true, so all that was required was a bit of elbow grease to clean them up and set them up with motors (salvaged from old sewing machines). Then careful watching eBay and I have managed to gradually acquire collects and build up a useful set up.

Alternatively take a look at posts by fellow forum members #szbalogh who has put together a setup based on a Dremel.  His efforts are (to me) inspirational and just go to show what can be achieved with a bit of ingenuity and determination. 

How much you use a lathe I think will depend on the sort of watches  (or clocks) that interest you. I find that with wrist watches the most the lathe is used for is grinding rivets to remove broken staffs from balances. I have yet to make a staff for a wrist watch as I managed to acquire a useful stock of staffs in a job lot of stuff. Older (particularly pocket) watches where parts are just notavailable will give you more opportunity to hone your skills. My lathes don't get a lot of use at the moment but I wouldn't be without them.

As with any skill practice makes perfect so the more you use your lathe the better you will become. 

Like I said,  no easy answer.

[vinn3]

learning to run a lathe (any size) is  slightly easer than learning to play the violin.  vinn

[Ado213]

Tips on buying a lathe

As WRT has mentioned this is a big question with lots of possible answers. On thing I can say is if your buying one with a cross slide on it buy new, unless you can inspect it first.

These old lathes with cross slides, by virtue of their age usually have various amounts of "backlash" in their lead screws, which renders their reading scales virtually useless. There are several ways of accommodating this backlash if your using a  lathe with backlash, but this only compounds the problem of learning how to use one for the novice.

The lathe can be used for many operations apart from turning staffs, flexibility and tooling should be kept in mind should you purchase one. Always look at what comes with it and get the one with the most tooling and accessories. These can be expensive to buy individually if you are to make good use of the lathe.

Then there's measuring tools, a lathe is only as accurate as you can measure. Good measurement tools are a necessity if you want to turn out precision items. A vernier calliper is a good and handy tool, but its nowhere near as accurate as a micrometer and is easily damaged.

If you want to get the best out of your lathe and use it frequently, expect to spend on tooling. This would include drill, gravers, boring bars, parting tools, gravers, burnisher's and the list goes on.

There is a formidable list of  "add on's" you can buy for most lathes and in my opinion these should be bought. Its all about flexibility with a lathe, its no good to anyone if it will only do one job, it tends to sit in its box under the bench for months on end which in itself doesn't allow the use the user to develop his skills. There are books and videos available on lathe usage, buy and study these before you make your decision on a purchase, the pre-study will pay dividends when you buy, that I can guarantee.

Please don't let my ramblings put you off buying a lathe, they are a very useful tool and will definitely enhance your ability to perform different tasks in watchmaking.

 

 

 

 

 

[szbalogh]

Having a lathe is a great step forward. Many simple parts can be made by simple hand turning. Really widens possibilities. 

I am using a Dremel or ER20 collet system (5-10 USD the staff, 2-3 USD/collet), with that i can make new stems, punches and even new balance staffs. Lot and lot of parts and tools. For me with 2-3 hour watchtinkering per week as a hobby does not worth to buy a proper lathe. Although, i didnt gave up acquiring one sometime

See my posts and videos for Dremel and ER20 "lathe" examples! 

[oldhippy]

This is one of those questions (HOW LONG IS A PIECE OF STRING)

Depends what you want to achieve. It took me months to get to the top to be skilful in making a balance staff from scratch that will work in a watch. Turning the old rivet out in the balance because the staff was broken was one of the main reasons for having a lathe. I also had part finished balance staffs and watch stems which I could use by finishing off by means of a lathe. If you have more than a basic watch lathe you can re pivot. This is just a few of the popular things for having a watch lathe  I had a Boley lathe with loads of attachments, controlled by a foot peddle. I believe Mark's lathe is a Star as well as a Unimat 5. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong. If you buy a second hand one from ebay make sure it is in very good condition, ask if it is true, has it ever been dropped and what are the bearings like.     

[chadders1966]

Hi,

Just referring to the issue of cost I'm not sure where you are looking but most watchmakers lathes I see are (sometimes a lot) less than $1000 even with tools. As you are in Canada you could have a look at Uncle Larry's Watch Shop, he always has a number of lathes for sale at a range of prices. For example he has a Boley with 28 collets and other tooling for $429 at the moment. Obviously no-one can know the condition, but you may prefer to buy from a known seller rather than take a chance on EBay.

Stephen

[vinn3]

first,  a normal lathe has a "compound feed"    if thats what ment by cross slide.   it controls the "speed and feed".    a watcher does this by "eye and years of experience"  on a "tool rest".  or using a device called "  the turns"  excuse the lecture, i suggest getting a jewelers lathe.   cheers,   vinn

[Scouseget]

I'm still considering whether or not to take the plunge and buy a lathe. I'm actually comfortable already using a machinist type lathe (and also a milling machine) so, everything else being equal, I would rather go for that type rather than a watchmakers lathe. I could also use it for some of my other hobbies. Freehanding a delicate piece on a watchmakers lathe versus measured cuts using a cross slide, etc., sounds scary and not particularly a skill that appeals to me too much. Or am I being obstinate about this issue?

 

[Scouseget]

Well, after much, way too much, thought and cogitation, I took the plunge and purchased a Peerless watchmaker's lathe from my best friend Uncle Larry. It was in great shape and came with a good selection of collets, some gravers, and a bag of raw materials to practice on. I've since rounded out my set of collets, made a few additional gravers, and bought a used Jacob's chuck.

I know Peerless lathes aren't as highly regarded as, say, Boley but I'm really impressed with the quality and design of it, and it had obviously been treated well during its life with a old lady who only ever drove it once a week, to church on a Sunday. Oops, I'm confusing my purchases; that was the car I bought with only 350,000 miles on the clock!

Anyway, I have been practicing on it for some weeks and am now considering upping the ante and purchasing a cross slide so I can use it as a conventional, albeit tiny, lathe. My question is, is this viable, or would I be wasting money by doing so, given the expense of purchasing a good, but used, cross-slide for a 8mm lathe, which will be around $600, which is actually more than the lathe itself cost?

Why would I consider this, well I'd like to get into model building, small steam engines and the like? I certainly can't do this without some sort of lathe unless really ugly will do, which it wont. 

I will be guided by opinions on this so please let me know your thoughts if you would be so kind.

Cheerio for now.

Roger Adams

[Sleeper]

I have a 4  X 12 in. Sherline Lathe in Metric.  Its small and powerful and costs just a little more than $600 ($950). Since it is designed a mini lathe it is well suited to model work and making tools. I use mine when I don't want fire up one of my larger Grizzly lathes or I need metric cuts. It takes 1/8 inch, 3/16 and 1/4 inch tools. 

I have made plastic case press dies and even some my watch tools on it. It's handy for making pin vise chucks.

It's a good mini lathe that works much like my big 18 X 36 in. or 12 X 24 in. lathe. If I start cutting watch parts I may buy a watch makers lathe for that. Once you have one lathe you find it's nice to have second or third to do set ups for threads and such.   

Comparable to the Sherline is the Grizzly 7 X 12 in. Mini lathe or the 4 x 6 in. Micro Lathe. Both are way under $600.