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Seiko mainspring barrel not opening....

diamondslayer
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Lawson Super WRT Addict

Lawson

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Also a word of caution diamondslayer.  The grease they use in many Seiko barrels is horrible black stuff the makes a nasty mess of anything it touches.  Open those Seiko barrels is my least favorite job :(

 

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Mark Distinguished Member

Mark

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Generally, Seiko barrels are not meant to be opened. You can still open them insisting a little..

You do need to open them ;)

They have a slightly different cap than a standard barrel. Much the same as a valjoux 7750 barrel. The cap has a rim which extends right down to the barrel teeth tricky to open without damaging the barrel teeth. I find an extremely sharp razor blade is perfect for opening the cap.

On these seikos the mainspring has to come out as they are usually in an awful mess.

Also - note the orientation the mainspring is wound in. It will be the reverse of most Swiss watch barrels.

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jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

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Just now, Mark said:

You do need to open them ;)

They have a slightly different cap than a standard barrel. Much the same as a valjoux 7750 barrel. The cap has a rim which extends right down to the barrel teeth tricky to open without damaging the barrel teeth. I find an extremely sharp razor blade is perfect for opening the cap.

On these seikos the mainspring has to come out as they are usually in an awful mess.

Also - note the orientation the mainspring is wound in. It will be the reverse of most Swiss watch barrels.

Thanks Mark. To be honest the only 7S26 barrel that I've opened wasn't difficult at all, and no mess was found inside. I did replace the mainspring, but that didn't seem to make much difference.

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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Mark I don't know if you are aware back in  70's and 80's Seiko advised repairs if the the watch was 5 to 10 years old you should replace the whole barrel and not to open it to clean. Up to 5 years there is no need to do anything apart from cleaning the arbor. 

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Mark Distinguished Member

Mark

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16 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Mark I don't know if you are aware back in  70's and 80's Seiko advised repairs if the the watch was 5 to 10 years old you should replace the whole barrel and not to open it to clean. Up to 5 years there is no need to do anything apart from cleaning the arbor. 

Not aware of this - but for two decades I have always opened them up and done what I do with every watch :)

Actually - I have made a video of my method, write or wrong, and will upload it now so you guys can see how mucky they get, and this one was not too bad, Ive seen worse.

I shot a whole video for the 7S26 but have not finished editing it yet.

 

Edit... @oldhippy, I can see why Seiko would recommend this actually as the mainsprings can be damaged very very easily on these.

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oldhippy Distinguished Member

oldhippy

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We all have our different ways Mark. I think that is one reason why seiko barrels are different and can be hard to open. I look forward to the video, for me its nice seeing other watchmakers working and how the go about their work.

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jdm Distinguished Member

jdm

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26 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Mark I don't know if you are aware back in  70's and 80's Seiko advised repairs if the the watch was 5 to 10 years old you should replace the whole barrel and not to open it to clean. Up to 5 years there is no need to do anything apart from cleaning the arbor. 

Still the case today. Only barrel complete has a part number (if one can obtain the actual part). Which doesn't mean tha one can't open it anyway and replace MS with a generic part for a small saving.

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Lawson Super WRT Addict

Lawson

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One thing to mention about not only the 7s26, but many of the older Seiko movements, is that the lower arbor hole is often badly worn and needs to jeweled.  This is because they ran the arbor straight steel to steel, without a bushing.  Without regular servicing intervals these tend to wear badly and put the barrel on a slight tilt, causing the movement to have a lower amplitude.  In severe cases the barrel has tilted so much it's worn the plating off the top of the barrel as it rubs on the bridge, and the brass is exposed.

This fault is seen so frequently where I work, that even if the barrel is fine we jewel the hole as part of the service: as preventative maintenance.

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Lawson Super WRT Addict

Lawson

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3 hours ago, Mark said:

Actually - I have made a video of my method, write or wrong, and will upload it now so you guys can see how mucky they get, and this one was not too bad, Ive seen worse.

I shot a whole video for the 7S26 but have not finished editing it yet.

NO FAIR MARK!!  You got a clean one. ^_^

Why do I always get the barrels that look like they've been filled with Track-Roller Grease! :pulling-hair-out:

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Mark Distinguished Member

Mark

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NO FAIR MARK!!  You got a clean one. [emoji5]

Why do I always get the barrels that look like they've been filled with Track-Roller Grease! :pulling-hair-out:

Lol. Believe me - I've had them.

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Lawson Super WRT Addict

Lawson

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We get them from our parts department  :P

Seriously, I'm not sure of the cost mate.  We charge it out as "Auto Calendar Service" which is a flat rate of AU$495.00 for any standard 3 hand automatic movement with a date complication.

Sorry I can't be any more specific ... but you simply measure the arbor diameter (ID)  and the broach you used to re-round the hole (OD) ... add a couple of thou to the OD for a press fit, and also check the ID for correct side-shake to get the correct jewel.  Some plates require more broaching then others ... so the size you use can vary slightly for each movement.

I'm sure Mark will make a step-by-step video on jeweling worn bushings one day and it will be all clear.  It's not a difficult job with the correct tools.

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bobm12 Distinguished Member

bobm12

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5 hours ago, Lawson said:

I'm sure Mark will make a step-by-step video on jeweling worn bushings one day and it will be all clear.  It's not a difficult job with the correct tools.

I'm looking forward to this very much!

Cheers,

Bob

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      By JohnR725 · Posted

      It might not be a hook it might be something like this. But still the mainspring is catching on something on the slip ring because it doesn't have its own outer slipping part like the modern ones. The image below came from some vintage Omega thing I'll have to see if I can find where that has gone to.documentation A different book has this          
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      I did not see a hook on the slip ring. I will check again tomorrow.
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      By JohnR725 · Posted

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      By ManSkirtBrew · Posted

      Thank you for the once again very thorough and informative reply. I'm sure at this point it's academic, but I'm always curious to know best practices. This then implies that If I'm planning to reuse the old mainspring (which I am), I should also reinstall the slip ring. I will do that and apply braking grease to the inside of the slip ring as if it were the barrel. This makes the most sense to me. Also, that bit about the center cannon pinion is very helpful. That wasn't in the tech sheet I have (attached) dated 1970. Omega 1001(1).pdf
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