My Grandfathers Elgin Pocketwatch

[Davey57]

Just wondered whether there are any officianados that could tell me about my Grandfather's watch. I keep coming across it every now and then and kept meaning to find out about it. It does run but is as you can see very dirty.  No glass in and the second hand is missing.

 

 

Very dirty but looks in good condition.

 

I like the inscription, Genuine imitation silver!

 

Would it be possible to date it from any of these numbers?  Is that possibly a date scribed into the case at the bottom, looks like 17/6/11 but could it be that old?

 

I think I might like to restore it at some point, I imagine it should be possible to obtain a new hand and glass?

Edited March 4, 2016 by Davey57

[Alaskamick]

I think this answers your question :- A fairly basic pocket watch with only 7 jewels but in a Keystone Silveroid case which is a fakish silver can be quite nice.

 

If you can get it working, which shouldn't be difficult both the crystal and second hand should be fairly easy to get and you'll end up with a good watch.

 

It's also missing the movement fixing screws. Can be got as well.

 

It will definitely need a full service to ensure long life.

 

 

Grade: 293  

• Manufacturer:Elgin
• Manufacturer Location:Elgin, Illinois
• Movement Serial Number:21186821
• Grade:293
• Model:7
• Class:110
• Estimated Production Year:1919
• Run Quantity:1,000
• Total Production:702,000
• Size:16s
• Jewels:7j
• Movement Configuration:Openface
   
• Movement Finish:Gilt
• Movement Setting:Pendant
• Plate:3/4 Plate
• Barrel:Going
• Train:Quick
• Regulator:Plain
• Adjusted:No
• Railroad Grade:No

Edited March 4, 2016 by Alaskamick

[Davey57]

Thanks, that's great stuff, fascinating.

[ramrod]

whew! i gotta thank alaskamick for posting those links. my computer crapped out a few weeks ago and i lost all of my favorites. this was one of them. got it back!

[dalarry]

hi Davey57,

although that is not a valuable watch, considering it is the watch of your grandfather it could be brought back to life for very little.

i have many 7 jewel wonders and i love them.

and "silveroid"  shines pretty darn nice when well polished.

i have a drawer full of NOS crystals that may fit.

if you have a caliper and can measure what you need i will send you one if i have it.

attaching a pic of my favorite Elgin 7 jewel wonder

Todd

Edited March 5, 2016 by dalarry

[Davey57]

Hello Todd

It would be a nice feeling to have it looking good again. Are these crystals glass or acrylic? I'll measure it up tomorrow and let you know, many thanks for the offer.

They do have a charm about them.

[dalarry]

i only have glass, sorry. (insert sarcastic remark here)

i may even have a second hand for it.

i will do a search through my scrappers tomorrow and let you know.

Todd

[Davey57]

Hello Todd

It would be a nice feeling to have it looking good again. Are these crystals glass or acrylic? I'll measure it up tomorrow and let you know, many thanks for the offer.

They do have a charm about them.

 

I was just wondering whether pocket watches in general were fitted with glass or acrylic crystals. I think glass would suit them much more nicely anyway.

I have measured the case at 44.20mm where the crystal sits. Thanks for your kind offer.

Dave

[Alaskamick]

 Watches were all fitted with glass crystals but with the invention of plastic they became very popular even in the American watch industry.

 

Plastic is much inferior, very easy to scratch and usually end up foggy but much cheaper to replace. So what you fit depends on how much you want to pay and don't forget that fitting glass is quite tricky and can end up being broken in the process.

 

I can't remember much about them but at one time some American watches were fitted with a particular type of plastic crystal which ended up causing corrosion within the watch movement  and I think damage to the face.

 

Really the only answer is, if you want a nice looking and long lasting watch, fit glass crystals and nothing else.

 

This only applies to Pocket Watches. The use of glass in wristwatches with domed crystals doesn't seem to have been widely adopted because of the ease of breaking them when worn whereas pocket watches were always worn in waistcoats and well protected.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Alaskamick

[dalarry]

alaskamick is absolutely correct.

some american PWs were originally made with acrylic crystals which as a result of off gassing caused unexpected damage to the dial and movement.

hence my glass only sarcastic remark.

[Davey57]

I see what you mean. I suppose if pocket watches are always being pulled in and out of pockets to check the time a plastic crystal would become hazy to see through.

Could you also enlighten me as to how the crystals are retained. There is only a very tiny lip that I can see where the crystal would sit, with no room for a gasket. Are they held in with glass cement?

[dalarry]

it actually has nothing to do with them being pulled in and out of pockets.

they just go hazy with age.

and the gaseous ammoniacs they give off as they decompose react with the dial and movement.

a proper fitting crystal in an american PW is friction fit.

it requires no glues or cements.

that being said i will now contradict myself.

sometimes, you have a crystal that is beautiful.

but doesn't quite fit.

so use some hypo cement to secure it.

no big deal

perfect is best.

but in something 100 years old perfect is not always an option.

Todd

[Marc]

I could be wrong here but I believe that the issue with old plastic watch crystals off gassing causing corrosion is specific to the very old use of celluloid for watch crystals.

 

The deterioration of the celluloid over time causes the crystal to yellow, and the release of compounds from the celluloid can cause the precipitation of nitric acid which will quickly destroy steel watch hands and will almost certainly damage painted or printed dials.

Enamelled dials should be ok though.

 

Either way I think you would be very hard pushed to find a supply of celluloid crystals any where these days as celluloid was dropped in favour of acrylic a long time ago.

 

The issue should not occur with acrylic as it is a much more stable plastic.

[dalarry]

Marc is absolutely correct re: celluloid versus acrylic.

i do however run across them very often as my interests lay in antique pocket watches.

attached is a pic of a yellowed crystal from a watch i picked up a few weeks ago at a flea market.

the owner thought it was a "tinted" crystal.

[dalarry]

good news Davey57 !

i have a crystal that is 43.9 mm. 

that is 0.3 mm too small but close enough.

it is unused and flawless.

better than too big!

i also have a second hand that is correct to your watch.

i will pm you for your info and get them off to you monday.

 

[Davey57]

That is great Todd, many thanks indeed.

I have sent you a pm.

Dave

[dalarry]

i have a room jammed full of parts i will never use.

happy to pass them on to someone who will make use of them.

especially for a family heirloom.

luckily they are stored in some semblance of order, albeit a method that baffles and annoys my more than patient wife.

Todd

[dalarry]

hi Davey57,

the parts are in the post.

for payment i would like a pic of your grandfathers watch whole again.

that will make me smile.

P.S.

i strongly advise against running the watch until it is given a coa.

dirt mixed with oil is abrasive and can do damage to the pinions and other parts,

all my best.

Todd

[Davey57]

hi Davey57,

the parts are in the post.

for payment i would like a pic of your grandfathers watch whole again.

that will make me smile.

P.S.

i strongly advise against running the watch until it is given a coa.

dirt mixed with oil is abrasive and can do damage to the pinions and other parts,

all my best.

Todd

 

That's fantastic Todd, thanks very much. It's a deal, soon as it's done I will be happy to show it off. Don't worry, it is "resting" in the drawer until the work can begin. No doubt I will be back here asking for some advice then.

Regards

Dave