Loose roller table

[dnhb]

7 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Sharpening gauge.   I found the easiest side to do was the safety roller as the roller table laid flat on a block provided stability.  The other way requires a specific stump for the roller and pin to sit in, but may also grip better way.

Ah! Yes, I've got one of those. Thanks for this & all your helpful contributions.

[nevenbekriev]

17 hours ago, dnhb said:

1. I've so far found that this one needs something thicker than 2x kitchen foil (another suggestion in that thread)!

2. I've been checking where the roller needs to be in relation to the wheel, the hairspring stud/arm & the pallet fork to try to get it right first time.

 

If the hole of the roller is that bigger, then just putting something in the hole for tightening can easy make the roller rotate out of true. It is important, especially for the safety roller, to be true. Closing the hole with triangle punch also will not guaranty the safety roller true rotation.

The roller is to be placed as the impulse jewel to be right at 90 degr. against the balance arms.

Edited 23 hours ago by nevenbekriev

[mikepilk]

18 hours ago, dnhb said:

1. I've so far found that this one needs something thicker than 2x kitchen foil (another suggestion in that thread)!

It must be very loose then 

I bought some brass shim sheet  0.001", 0.002", 0.003" & 0.005". Useful stuff. You can find assorted packs on ebay

[Nucejoe]

 Agree with  Neven, roller table rotating out of true alters  lift angle which follows an oscilatory path , that  in turn changes the impulse delivered to oscilator at its TDC. 

 

 

[nickelsilver]

Echoing Neven, the safety action on nice pieces is often very close, and a slight eccentricity can affect this. Runs great horizontal, then one or two verticals crap out. Without fail the balance will be above the escapement in these faulty positions- though sometimes also at horizontal to it, the "draw" (what pulls the fork to the banking) is often less than ideal, especially in older pieces and in my experience more with higher grade stuff. Suddenly the guard pin is rubbing.

[Neverenoughwatches]

This much gap will make the rollers and all run too eccentric. The pin , the passing notch and the safety roller all have strict tolerances to coincide with the fork slot, gaurd pin and horns. Will it run ? Maybe, but it will restrict the escapement efficiency.

[JohnR725]

On 5/7/2025 at 10:29 AM, nevenbekriev said:

But, is this watch worth it?

 

On 5/6/2025 at 3:22 PM, dnhb said:

'm sorry if my previous posts have caused confusion. I don't charge the Charity Shop for my time or materials so neither "lowest price" nor "profit" is relevant. I will tell the shop to what condition I have been able to return the watch & advise whether I think they could hope to get a better price online rather than selling locally in declaring that condition. Naturally I aim to do work that is 'proper' - hence my question that initiated this thread - or at least reversible & explain what I have done & why. So "fast quick repairs" doesn't exactly apply either although I won't hold on to a watch beyond the point at which I'm making improvements or have the realistic prospect of doing so, for example as a result of advice I hope to receive from WRT colleagues. I do hope this clarification is helpful. Thank you for your interest.

These two quotes together are quite amusing aren't they?

We end up with quite an amusing problem. We find out that you not going to charge for labor material or basically anything the repair of a watch will cost them zero. All they have to contribute to the project is a free watch and you will generate cash for them at no expenditure to them at all. So this actually means that every single watch is now worth it to them as they have nothing at all to lose.

There's a reason why on eBay when they sell watches that they say are running but they only ran for a few seconds when they observed it was running. Or the definition of cleaning is spraying it with lighter fluid and saying it's now cleaned. Because anything that resembles proper watch servicing requires time and effort and expenditure. But here at least for the charity there is no time there is no expense there is no nothing outstanding deal they worked out but is it a good deal for you? If basically the watch is only going to make a profit because of all the effort that you put into it way beyond what the watch would've cost even if it was running is it really a good deal?

 

[dnhb]

4 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

If the hole of the roller is that bigger, then just putting something in the hole for tightening can easy make the roller rotate out of true. It is important, especially for the safety roller, to be true. Closing the hole with triangle punch also will not guaranty the safety roller true rotation.

The roller is to be placed as the impulse jewel to be right at 90 degr. against the balance arms.

Thanks for the warning. I had in fact picked up the point about the risk to tolerances in the thread referenced above, so in an attempt to minimise the problem I made a cylinder to effectively 'bush' the RT tube rather than 'shimming' the staff on one or 2 sides. The table now seems secure although the base of the table is not *quite* in contact with the hub. I could possibly press/tap it down further but am chary about that given what I've been told about the fragility of roller tables.

I did in fact conclude that the 90° orientation would put the jewel in the right position wrt the pallet fork etc so your comment is reassuring.

I'm now left with another 'first', viz replacing & securing the jewel which popped out as I removed the large, untidy splodge of shellac underneath the table (this, incidentally, was preventing the table base sitting right on the wheel hub).

[nevenbekriev]

You must put the balance in movement and see how the roller is situated against the pallet fork. The dart (guard pin) must point against the middle of guard roller. The impulse jewel is not needed at this point. The balance should rotate free and the dart must have normal clearance with the guard roller. This means the pallet fork will move just a little and will not unlock and will return to the banking pins when pressed towards the center.

[dnhb]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

.......But here at least for the charity there is no time there is no expense there is no nothing outstanding deal they worked out but is it a good deal for you? If basically the watch is only going to make a profit because of all the effort that you put into it way beyond what the watch would've cost even if it was running is it really a good deal?

I appreciate your concern on my behalf! However my relationship with local charity shops is informal & based on trust. I'm not obliged to address any watch or clock that they consider needs attention. What I get out of it is a series of opportunities to learn & practice - assisted by WRT colleagues, my books & YouTube videos - & the satisfaction of the occasional 'notable' (to me) success & of being of some use to good causes.

[caseback]

9 hours ago, dnhb said:

I appreciate your concern on my behalf! However my relationship with local charity shops is informal & based on trust. I'm not obliged to address any watch or clock that they consider needs attention. What I get out of it is a series of opportunities to learn & practice - assisted by WRT colleagues, my books & YouTube videos - & the satisfaction of the occasional 'notable' (to me) success & of being of some use to good causes.

So, working on watches and your karma at the same time: win-win situation! 

[Neverenoughwatches]

10 hours ago, dnhb said:

I made a cylinder to effectively 'bush' the RT tube rather than 'shimming' the staff on one or 2 sides. 

???

[dnhb]

53 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

???

In writing "shimming the staff" I was alluding to the idea trailed in the above referenced thread of inserting a hair along the staff which, as the discussion there covered,  could result in some eccentricity. By making a (more or less) complete cylinder I was hoping to avoid that problem. Don't tell anyone, but needing a very ductile metal to do this by manipulation at such a small scale, I used a piece of an empty Tomato pureé tube! It occurred to me that the material's ductility(?) would also put less stress on the RT in forming a sufficiently tight seal. Anyway, that's how I avoided the temptation to use glue.

No doubt your punctuational response to this confession will be "!!!" !

[dnhb]

6 hours ago, caseback said:

So, working on watches and your karma at the same time: win-win situation! 

Believe me: I am aware how fortunate I am.