Balance cock stud screw

[Zedster]

Hi, guys

I had to order a new balance cock which was described as complete, which it is apart from the stud screw  Now I have a screw from the old cock but before I go and send it into orbit, I've tried to fit it already but without success, is there any tips I should know? I tried laying the cock flat and entering the crew sideways but this didn't work so maybe try it from a vertical position. Any suggestions would be appreciated.  

 

[mikepilk]

stick it to the screwdriver with a tiny bit of Rodico

[Jon]

1 hour ago, Zedster said:

Hi, guys

I had to order a new balance cock which was described as complete, which it is apart from the stud screw  Now I have a screw from the old cock but before I go and send it into orbit, I've tried to fit it already but without success, is there any tips I should know? I tried laying the cock flat and entering the crew sideways but this didn't work so maybe try it from a vertical position. Any suggestions would be appreciated.  

 

I use these https://adjustingvintagewatches.com/tools-for-adding-weight/

I picked mine up from a watch fair years ago. Great for this type of work and for removing poise screws to fit timing washers.

Cousins do a set, which aren't cheap, but I find that more than one size is definitely needed https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/balance-screw-holders-set

Otherwise, if you have a really small pin vice that'll work.

[Bonefixer]

Stick the cock in a bit of rodico so the screw hole is vertical?

[mikepilk]

Being a cheapskate, I bought one of these to use on balance screws. It needed some reshaping of the tips, but does the job well enough. You could use it on the balance cock screw. 

[nickelsilver]

As Jon said balance screw holder makes it a pleasure to deal with these guys, and the cheap one Mike linked should work fine- even if they're a bit rough they should be ok on the hardened steel stud screw (balance screws are much softer thus the expensive multi-size sets).

[Zedster]

Thanks for all the replies, it's really appreciated. While I was at the gym I thought about the problem a bit more and also came up with the rodico and pin vice scenario.  Stick the screw in some rodico, thread first, then pick up the head of the screw with the pin vice, and hopefully, job done.  I have a cheap pin vice from Amazon but also have the Hortec double-ended one in my shopping cart at Cousins so may get that before trying. 

[mikepilk]

The Rodico trick is fiddly with such a small screw, it's just to get the thread started. Using a balance screw holder is easier, but it's still fiddly to get the screw in the holder 

6 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

and the cheap one Mike linked should work fine- even if they're a bit rough they should be ok on the hardened steel stud screw (balance screws are much softer thus the expensive multi-size sets).

Yes, being a bit rough, they do mark the balance screws a bit. So, another thing to add to the tool "wish list". Thanks for reminding me 

[nickelsilver]

16 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

The Rodico trick is fiddly with such a small screw, it's just to get the thread started. Using a balance screw holder is easier, but it's still fiddly to get the screw in the holder 

Yes, being a bit rough, they do mark the balance screws a bit. So, another thing to add to the tool "wish list". Thanks for reminding me 

Even the standard 3 size set doesn't cover everything- really need bigger ones for pocket watches, and sometimes smaller ones when you get a microscopic LeCoultre in . But 99% of the time the 3 size set I got in school in the 1900s does it. They don't seem so expensive in that perspective- even the box is still in good shape a quarter century later.

[mikepilk]

1 minute ago, nickelsilver said:

 But 99% of the time the 3 size set I got in school in the 1900s does it. 

Thanks, that's useful to know. Will save some expense.

"school in the 1900s" !  I didn't know you were so ancient @nickelsilver 

[Zedster]

It's back to the drawing board I'm afraid. As pointed out, the Rodico trick is so fiddly and my pin vice jaws don't close in union. I tried but the screw is so small it's hard to grip the screw in the Rodico without it moving all over the place while trying to get it in the vice. I started to shake too much so gave up before the screw flew off somewhere never to be found again.  I'm now thinking that maybe I could bond the screw on the end of a bit of peg wood and then dissolve the adhesive afterward. 

I just had another thought I have some really small PCB drill bits maybe I could drill a small hole in peg wood and push the screw in, as stated I only need to get the screw started. 

Another idea  Magnetize the screwdriver to hold the screw  

Edited May 4 by Zedster

[LittleWatchShop]

Either of those ideas might work. Did you try putting a thin layer of rodico on the cocktail and then push the screw through it. Afterwards, soak in one dip

[RichardHarris123]

Punch a hole in some thin card, push the screw through.  Start the screw and rip the card off 

[Zedster]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Either of those ideas might work. Did you try putting a thin layer of rodico on the cocktail and then push the screw through it. Afterwards, soak in one dip

No I haven't tried that, I'm just thinking of the most complicated solutions   

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Punch a hole in some thin card, push the screw through.  Start the screw and rip the card off 

Another great idea  All I need to do is hold that little bugger steady while I try and screw it in, without starting to shake, it gets the better of me sometimes but is getting less the more I do  

I need to order some bits from Cousins so I decoded to put this to one side until I get a balance screw holder, it may come in useful later on as well. I'm assuming it closes down enough as I don't know the diameter of a balance screw compared to the stud screw, I haven't worked on a movement with balance screws! I'll be getting the cheap one 

Edited May 4 by Zedster

[Neverenoughwatches]

5 hours ago, Zedster said:

No I haven't tried that, I'm just thinking of the most complicated solutions   

Another great idea  All I need to do is hold that little bugger steady while I try and screw it in, without starting to shake, it gets the better of me sometimes but is getting less the more I do  

I need to order some bits from Cousins so I decoded to put this to one side until I get a balance screw holder, it may come in useful later on as well. I'm assuming it closes down enough as I don't know the diameter of a balance screw compared to the stud screw, I haven't worked on a movement with balance screws! I'll be getting the cheap one 

As Richard said, this is a really old school trick for joinery.  Cut i strip of paper, might need to be watch paper  around 1 " x 1/2" lay it over a staking block then press the stud screw into and through the edge of the paper upto the head of the screw. You probably wont even need to pull the paper away the head will pull itself through.

[Zedster]

Hi, guys

I got there in the end after several attempts using a screwdriver and Rodico, I couldn't wait for the tool to arrive and was getting pretty confident handling the stud screw without it flying away. At first, I was using far too much Rodico, and then realized you only need the smallest amount inside the screw slot. Putting the cock back onto the movement also helped as it gave me more to hold onto while my shaky hand tried to align the screw wobbling away at the end of the screwdriver

Anyway, job done and I can move on. Thanks again for all the advice it's really appreciated for a beginner. 

[canthus]

How about using a magnetised screwdriver for picking-up and fitting screw, then run the assembly through a demagnetiser.  I know magnetism is a no no, but this method is less fiddly, and has worked for me on several occasions.