Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Hi, guys

I had to order a new balance cock which was described as complete, which it is apart from the stud screw 🤬 Now I have a screw from the old cock but before I go and send it into orbit, I've tried to fit it already but without success, is there any tips I should know? I tried laying the cock flat and entering the crew sideways but this didn't work so maybe try it from a vertical position. Any suggestions would be appreciated.  

 

Posted
1 hour ago, Zedster said:

Hi, guys

I had to order a new balance cock which was described as complete, which it is apart from the stud screw 🤬 Now I have a screw from the old cock but before I go and send it into orbit, I've tried to fit it already but without success, is there any tips I should know? I tried laying the cock flat and entering the crew sideways but this didn't work so maybe try it from a vertical position. Any suggestions would be appreciated.  

 

I use these https://adjustingvintagewatches.com/tools-for-adding-weight/

I picked mine up from a watch fair years ago. Great for this type of work and for removing poise screws to fit timing washers.

Cousins do a set, which aren't cheap, but I find that more than one size is definitely needed https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/balance-screw-holders-set

Otherwise, if you have a really small pin vice that'll work.

  • Like 2
Posted

Being a cheapskate, I bought one of these to use on balance screws. It needed some reshaping of the tips, but does the job well enough. You could use it on the balance cock screw. 

image.thumb.png.083f36722034926a25740dad8e403664.png

  • Like 2
Posted

As Jon said balance screw holder makes it a pleasure to deal with these guys, and the cheap one Mike linked should work fine- even if they're a bit rough they should be ok on the hardened steel stud screw (balance screws are much softer thus the expensive multi-size sets).

  • Like 1
Posted

Thanks for all the replies, it's really appreciated. While I was at the gym I thought about the problem a bit more and also came up with the rodico and pin vice scenario.  Stick the screw in some rodico, thread first, then pick up the head of the screw with the pin vice, and hopefully, job done.  I have a cheap pin vice from Amazon but also have the Hortec double-ended one in my shopping cart at Cousins so may get that before trying. 

Posted

The Rodico trick is fiddly with such a small screw, it's just to get the thread started. Using a balance screw holder is easier, but it's still fiddly to get the screw in the holder 🤣

6 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

and the cheap one Mike linked should work fine- even if they're a bit rough they should be ok on the hardened steel stud screw (balance screws are much softer thus the expensive multi-size sets).

Yes, being a bit rough, they do mark the balance screws a bit. So, another thing to add to the tool "wish list". Thanks for reminding me 😟

  • Like 1
Posted
16 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

The Rodico trick is fiddly with such a small screw, it's just to get the thread started. Using a balance screw holder is easier, but it's still fiddly to get the screw in the holder 🤣

Yes, being a bit rough, they do mark the balance screws a bit. So, another thing to add to the tool "wish list". Thanks for reminding me 😟

Even the standard 3 size set doesn't cover everything- really need bigger ones for pocket watches, and sometimes smaller ones when you get a microscopic LeCoultre in 😂😬. But 99% of the time the 3 size set I got in school in the 1900s does it. They don't seem so expensive in that perspective- even the box is still in good shape a quarter century later.

Posted
1 minute ago, nickelsilver said:

 But 99% of the time the 3 size set I got in school in the 1900s does it. 

Thanks, that's useful to know. Will save some expense.

"school in the 1900s" !  I didn't know you were so ancient @nickelsilver 🤣

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Posted (edited)

It's back to the drawing board I'm afraid. As pointed out, the Rodico trick is so fiddly and my pin vice jaws don't close in union. I tried but the screw is so small it's hard to grip the screw in the Rodico without it moving all over the place while trying to get it in the vice. I started to shake too much so gave up before the screw flew off somewhere never to be found again.  I'm now thinking that maybe I could bond the screw on the end of a bit of peg wood and then dissolve the adhesive afterward. 

I just had another thought🤔 I have some really small PCB drill bits maybe I could drill a small hole in peg wood and push the screw in, as stated I only need to get the screw started. 

Another idea 🤣 Magnetize the screwdriver to hold the screw 🤔 

Edited by Zedster
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Either of those ideas might work. Did you try putting a thin layer of rodico on the cocktail and then push the screw through it. Afterwards, soak in one dip

No I haven't tried that, I'm just thinking of the most complicated solutions 🤣  

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Punch a hole in some thin card, push the screw through.  Start the screw and rip the card off 

Another great idea 👍 All I need to do is hold that little bugger steady while I try and screw it in, without starting to shake, it gets the better of me sometimes but is getting less the more I do 😀 

I need to order some bits from Cousins so I decoded to put this to one side until I get a balance screw holder, it may come in useful later on as well. I'm assuming it closes down enough as I don't know the diameter of a balance screw compared to the stud screw, I haven't worked on a movement with balance screws! I'll be getting the cheap one 😆

Edited by Zedster
Posted
5 hours ago, Zedster said:

No I haven't tried that, I'm just thinking of the most complicated solutions 🤣  

Another great idea 👍 All I need to do is hold that little bugger steady while I try and screw it in, without starting to shake, it gets the better of me sometimes but is getting less the more I do 😀 

I need to order some bits from Cousins so I decoded to put this to one side until I get a balance screw holder, it may come in useful later on as well. I'm assuming it closes down enough as I don't know the diameter of a balance screw compared to the stud screw, I haven't worked on a movement with balance screws! I'll be getting the cheap one 😆

As Richard said, this is a really old school trick for joinery.  Cut i strip of paper, might need to be watch paper  around 1 " x 1/2" lay it over a staking block then press the stud screw into and through the edge of the paper upto the head of the screw. You probably wont even need to pull the paper away the head will pull itself through.

  • Like 1
Posted

Hi, guys

I got there in the end after several attempts using a screwdriver and Rodico, I couldn't wait for the tool to arrive and was getting pretty confident handling the stud screw without it flying away. At first, I was using far too much Rodico, and then realized you only need the smallest amount inside the screw slot. Putting the cock back onto the movement also helped as it gave me more to hold onto while my shaky hand tried to align the screw wobbling away at the end of the screwdriver😁

Anyway, job done and I can move on. Thanks again for all the advice it's really appreciated for a beginner. 

2022_0101_001247_003.JPG

  • Like 4
Posted

How about using a magnetised screwdriver for picking-up and fitting screw, then run the assembly through a demagnetiser.  I know magnetism is a no no, but this method is less fiddly, and has worked for me on several occasions.

  • Like 3

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Escapement adjusting always interesting and depending upon the reference always confusing. Okay maybe it's not always confusing but it does lead to confusion. I have a PDF below it's actually a whole bunch of separate stuff including a hand out that came from a lecture that's on you tube. Then from that we get this image Consequences of doing things especially if you do things out of order or you do things for the wrong reason. Oh and even if the watches working I made the mistake one so showing my boss how tweaking the banking pins on a full plate on the timing machine made the amplitude get better and now he thinks that's what they're for and I don't think a fully grasped exactly what horn clearance means. Consequence of doing things. Notice what it says about opening and closing the banking pins and total lock? So yes I've had that on a full plate where it won't unlock at all and that's the banking pins or a combination of things basically. So banking pins unfortunately get moved. One of the ways to tell if it's been moved is the look straight down at the end of the fork with the balance wheel removed. Power on the fork push at the one side look at it push it to the other side also look at it and compare anything with the center reference the balance jewel and see if both sides of the same. No guarantee after the same there in the right place but at least are the same typically when people play with things one side will be way off from the other because they had no idea what they were doing at all because of course it's a full plate and you really have to paying attention and even then there's still hard to do. Then the other thing that comes up like it shows below is people often adjust the banking pins to do all those other things as opposed to horn clearance which is all that it's therefore and maybe bonus Guard pin clearance although you're supposed to deal with the guard pin is a separate thing like single roller gets bent in Or out or sometimes physically gets moved in and out. Some full plates older escapement's typically pallet forks held together with screws and you can actually unscrew and move the entire assembly in Or out more complications to deal with.     Escapement handout wostep nscc.pdf
    • If he was much younger and some sort of sports player it wouldn't be a problem. They would be in there and doing surgery and he'd be back on the field in no time. Unfortunately when you get older little things are bad and big things can be really bad so not good at all.
    • Where I work everything incoming watches whatever detailed descriptions are taken entered into a computer program and photograph of each item. Then ideally although it depends on who's doing the paperwork detailed descriptions can be quite good other times there lacking. Like I really like it with pocket watches if they would record the serial number it avoids confusion later on. Then when watch repairs are completed that is also entered in. It's one of the amusements I learned when I was in school instructor had a shop and commented about the important aspect of keeping detailed records of repairs. Because oftentimes a customer who got a new crystal will come back later on when the watch doesn't work and expect you to fix the entire watch for free. Then you can remind them that they just got a crystal. Strangely enough that keeps coming up or occasionally comes up where I work now. One of the problems of using the service marks on the case is that in the case of pocket watches oftentimes that's not the original case. Then case marks? What I was doing warranty work for a company I used to describe a code number in the back of the case and it would tell me the next time I see the watch that basically what I did I made no attempt at keeping track of customers because we had literally thousands of them I think they sold 30,000 of these watches and they would come back by the hundreds because they had a lifetime warranty. Yes that's a story all of itself but I would put a code number that would reference what was done to the watch the last time and think I had a date in there somehow so it did tell a story if you knew the code. Another shop I once worked out the number would reference the page in the book. So other than knowing we had been in there you would have no idea what happened because you have to go look at the page in the book to see what happened. Then the problem of how you examine a watch you should examine the watch in detail every single time to avoid complications. Although on vintage watches and this is a of amusement I have at work when people ask something and I say of the watches done when it leaves. This is because on vintage oftentimes problems won't show up until the watches much farther into the repair like it's now running and you discover things that you can't discover before because it wasn't running to discover them that also become sometimes difficult to have exact rigid prices are estimates of repairs or in the case of a pocket watch you may not find out if a casing problem to later on when you case it up in the watches running. I was just thinking for all those people that would like to leave a mark maybe you should learn to do what some of the past watchmakers did? Leave a mark but leave it in such a way that no one will ever find it? Typically not done for repair purposes but done for other reasons like identifying it's legit. I have a friend with a Gruen watch and one of the Roman numbers the bottom line that just looks like a line under extreme magnification actually says Gruen watch company or something equivalent. So here's a link showing how to mark your watch without being seen although that's not the actual title. So if you can learn micro engraving you can engrave the watch someplace probably just about any place you just have to remember where you put it. https://cnaluxury.channelnewsasia.com/obsessions/how-to-prove-if-watches-are-authentic-secret-signatures-182516  
    • I have acquired a Citizen Leopard 36000 watch. My reason for purchasing it was my desire to own a timepiece with a 36,000 BPH movement, and the price was reasonable. Another motivating factor was gaining hands-on experience with the mechanism. The watch is in good condition, but I intend to fully disassemble it for maintenance. First and foremost, if anyone has prior experience with this particular model, I would greatly appreciate their insights. I do not have access to Citizen’s specialized lubricants and will need to use the ones available to me, such as 9010, 8000, and 8300 grease. Additionally, I do not possess the appropriate oil for the pallet jewels and will only be able to clean them.
    • Hello all, I am working on an older Valjoux Chrono. It doesn't have a stamp on the movement anywhere but I believe it is a Valjoux 72. I installed the train of wheels and they will not turn. The problem appears to be the 4th wheel and the escape wheel are not interfacing correctly. I had to replace both of these parts as the pivots were broken on each. I sourced genuine Valjoux/ETA replacements. I think the problem is with the escape wheel as all the wheels turn perfectly if I remove just the escape wheel.  My question to those with more Valjoux experience is am I mistaken? Is this some other model altogether and I have the wrong part or parts?    
×
×
  • Create New...