Crown wheel screw spinning out at the end ETA2783

[watch3008]

Hello, I am new to the forum and new to watchmaking. I bought a "vintage Accurist" watch for £12-ish on ebay. I don't think it is genuine since there was a "Made in Thailand" stamp on the back of the dial when I removed it. Inside is what appears to be an ETA 2783 movement and I guess it is safe to say that this is also not genuine. I've decided to still take it apart and try to see why it isn't working. The following screw (which seems to be reverse threaded) unscrews until just before the end and then spins out and does not come out fully. I don't see anything on the reverse side. Any ideas? Thanks (attached is a photo with a useless red arrow )

[RichardHarris123]

I think the movement is genuine, the dail being made in Thailand.  Put a screwdriver under the head of the screw and apply slight upward force. 

[CYCLOPS]

if the screws hole is threaded through the bridge then push the screw from the opposite/underside....

[Nucejoe]

Standard grade ETA movements are made in Asia too, the quality you get is slightly inferior to Swiss, some junk ones too.

You can tell the difference if you compare gears with Swiss side by side.  finer gears and nicer polish on Swiss ones. I am not sure about the hairsprings , just assume them to be lowest grade.

If the crown wheel doesn't want to come out, best to just leave it there. unscrew the crown wheel screw as much as you can and get some oil on its bearing. 

Good luck.

[Klassiker]

15 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Standard grade ETA movements are made in Asia too

Where did you get this information? I thought ETA only produces "Swiss Made" movements. Or are you talking about counterfeits or clones?

[Nucejoe]

18 minutes ago, Klassiker said:

Where did you get this information? I thought ETA only produces "Swiss Made" movements. Or are you talking about counterfeits or clones?

Hi Klassiker

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=1701&rid=2

Google for answer, you can't miss it.

Edited March 25 by Nucejoe

[Marc]

I could be wrong, but my understanding has always been that it was only quartz movements that ETA made in Thailand and China for sale in Hong Kong, not mechanical.

Reading the interview linked by @Nucejoe actually reinforces this understanding.

"Do you still have customers all over the world ?
Yes, but we make about 60 % of sales inside the Swatch Group, followed by the rest of the Swiss industry. You have to consider that 80 % of the Swiss watches that are exported are fit with an ETA movement. Other customers come from Germany, Italy, France, the USA and there's a lot of business with Hong Kong where we sell the lower priced movements to. Some of these movements only cost 1.50 CHF ($ 1.00) including the battery. But even these are highly precise quality movements.

Are these movements sold to European companies ?
We need this type of movement in Switzerland too but we make them here and sell them as "Swiss Made". The movements made in China and Thailand are sold to Hong Kong.

Does that mean that parts come from the Far East and are used in Switzerland ?
"Swiss Made" is an exactly defined term. It means that apart from the assembly, at least 50 percent of the parts are made here."

In his response to the first question above Anton Bally refers to movements that only cost 1.50 CHF ($ 1.00) including the battery. - So clearly quartz...

The next question asks Are these movements sold to European companies ?  - Being the movements referred to in the previous answer (quartz)...

The third answer clearly states what "Swiss Made" actually means, i.e. at least 50% of the parts made in Switzerland and the final product assembled in Switzerland.

I would suggest that if the OP's Accurist has Swiss Made on the dial then the movement is either a genuine Swiss made ETA movement or the watch is a counterfeit. I don't believe that Accurist has ever been much of a target for the counterfeiters.

@watch3008 That screw is indeed left hand threaded and it should just unscrew. I'm pretty certain that it is in a blind hole so that it can't be tightened down onto the crown wheel as that would stop the wheel from turning so you can't access it from the other side. If you can only partially unscrew it then as @RichardHarris123 has suggested a little leverage (perhaps with some peg wood so as not to damage anything) under the screw head whilst turning it with a screw driver might be the only option.

[RichardHarris123]

24 minutes ago, Marc said:

pretty certain that it is in a blind hole so that it can't be tightened down onto the crown wheel as that would stop the wheel from turning so you can't access it from the other side

Your probably correct but wouldn't a  sholdered screw prevent tightening down on the crown wheel? 

[Marc]

32 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Your probably correct but wouldn't a  sholdered screw prevent tightening down on the crown wheel? 

A shouldered screw would indeed be one way to do the job. However, below is the screw concerned.

[Nucejoe]

 Quartz research anounced success in Asia first,  China and Thailamd made and sold them to Hong Kong, this leave the Swiss the role of story telling  and investment in Asian watch printers.

A mechanical  Swiss patent ends, to prepare grounds for the brith of a new Swiss versian, Asians jump in to continue making the old versians .

I suggest OP's movement is a low quality Swiss know how , made in Asia. 

Rgds

 

[Marc]

13 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

I suggest OP's movement is a low quality Swiss know how , made in Asia. 

Based on what evidence?

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

Based on what evidence?

Rim width of the center wheel , rim-band is wide on this, it  would be thinner on higher precision gears if Swiss. 

For instance, gears in elabore grade are finer and  more precise compared to gears of standard grade, finer cut & better polished, so  less friction and need not to be thick and wide for more strength. 

Just compare gears of standard, elabore and top grade , you should see the difference.

Some Asian made gears are worse than this one. 

I must have at least 150 ETA watch,  personally witnessed. 

Rgds

 

 

Edited March 25 by Nucejoe

[Marc]

10 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Rim width of the center wheel , rim-band is wide on this, it  would be thinner on higher precision gears if Swiss. 

For instance, gears in elabore grade are finer and  more precise compared to gears of standard grade, finer cut & better polished, so  less friction and need not to be thick and wide for more strength. 

Just compare gears of standard, elabore and top grade , you should see the difference.

Some Asian made gears are worse than this one. 

I must have at least 150 ETA watch,  personally witnessed. 

Rgds

 

 

@Nucejoe can you post some pictures to show the difference please.

[Nucejoe]

3 hours ago, Marc said:

@Nucejoe can you post some pictures to show the difference please.

Sure , will do ASAP.

Rgds

[Nucejoe]

Asian sweep wheel

https://www.watchmaterial.com/eta-2750-2769-2770-2779-2790-2791-second-sweep-wheel-original/

Swiss

https://www.passionchrono.com/en/eta-2750-227-roue-de-seconde-au-centre-a-l-unite-sweep-second-wheel-and-pinion-per-unit

Edited March 27 by Nucejoe