ETA 2790 setting time problem

[Hiaz224]

Hello!

This is my 3rd post and this time I would need help to go on with my project, so thanks in advance:

The 2790 is already serviced with a reasonable performance using. when I was fixing the hands to case the movement I noticed that setting the time required high torque to move the hands. The time-grapher showed about the same performance...

I double checked and noticed that when I take out the pallet fork  the time setting is back to normal (soft). I can't understand the relation between the pallet fork and the time setting... 

Additional info:

1. I double checked the calendar mechanism

2. Double checked the remontoir mechanism

3. I can't manually move the wheels when the pallet fork is installed and the balance is out of the movement.

So, it seems that I am doing something wrong and the only thing I notice is that if the balance is installed the watch works but the time setting is too hard. If the pallet fork is not installed I can set the time without a problem... I put back the pallet fork and it ticks when is touched but the hands are again hard to move.

Please let me know if you need any other information. 

Thanks for reading my post.

Fernando

 

[eccentric59]

Just to be clear, when the watch is assembled and the setting position is stiff, the hands still move, correct?

By removing the pallet fork you allow the train to run freely, so when you put the keyless works in the setting position, the cannon pinion won't slide and  you are turning both the motion works and the train. The 2970 uses a cannon pinion wheel setup like this 

Make sure you've lubricated the contact points between the wheel and pinion.

[watchweasol]

Hi Fernando,   When the patter fork is installed you cannot move the train  as it’s locked by the pallet. And it yo7 can’t move the train with ths pallet fork a balance you have a problem. With the train installed and a couple of turn# on the mainspring the train should move freely. Ok can only suggest dismantling the watch and reassembling it again checking each stage as you complete it 

start with mainspring and train wheels, always checking the train freedom.  When assembling the keyless work make sure the right screws are in the right places.   If you look on cousins uk web site and look in document down loads you 2ill be able to find and print the technical sheet for this movement eta 2790.

[Hiaz224]

53 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Fernando,   When the patter fork is installed you cannot move the train  as it’s locked by the pallet. And it yo7 can’t move the train with ths pallet fork a balance you have a problem. With the train installed and a couple of turn# on the mainspring the train should move freely. Ok can only suggest dismantling the watch and reassembling it again checking each stage as you complete it 

start with mainspring and train wheels, always checking the train freedom.  When assembling the keyless work make sure the right screws are in the right places.   If you look on cousins uk web site and look in document down loads you 2ill be able to find and print the technical sheet for this movement eta 2790.

Hi! My bad. I meant to say that when the pallet fork is installed I cant move the wheels "using the crown in the setting position" Really in truly my number 3 was redundant and badly written (trying to explain myself went all wrong).

I dismantling partially the watch (calendar, remontoir, Balance and Pallet fork). I think I would need to go that way... 

Thanks for your comments...

 

1 hour ago, eccentric59 said:

Just to be clear, when the watch is assembled and the setting position is stiff, the hands still move, correct? (Yes, but slowly and I need to apply high torque to the crown.)

By removing the pallet fork you allow the train to run freely, so when you put the keyless works in the setting position, the cannon pinion won't slide (this sentence is making me think as you can't imagine!!!) and  you are turning both the motion works and the train. The 2970 uses a cannon pinion wheel setup like this 

Make sure you've lubricated the contact points between the wheel and pinion. Ups! I think here it is the root of my problem... (1. I did not oil where you mention!!!!!. 2. I took this setting and it seems or feels to me that the pinion does not rotate within the wheel and it should. )

This is my second ETA and I never stopped to think on how this setting works. I really appreciate your comments

Thanks Fernando

 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi fernando. Let us know how you get on.

[nevenbekriev]

Hi Fernando, read carefully what @eccentric59 wrote, it is the key to You problem. Lubricate the cannon pinion. Take care to understand what is it's function. When You set time, the train doesn't move, but only the cannon pinion moves. Put hte lever back in it's place, it has nothing to do with time setting

[Hiaz224]

Yes. I understand (now). I regret to say that I am servicing watches without fulling understanding the cannon pinion function in relation with setting the time  (and many other theory aspects of the orology!!!). If is too tight the hands won't move and on the contrary. If the pallet fork is not installed the train of wheels will spin freely and if the remontoir is on the setting position the motion wheels will also move.

I will use HP 1300 for the cannon pinion setting.

I am happy and grateful and of course I will report back as soon as I can.

Thanks 

 

[Nucejoe]

Hi Hiaz,

I see you didn't get this link usually given to new members by oldhippy, here , useful stuff.

704789946_TZIllustratedGlossary(2).pdf
4.2 MB
 

[Hiaz224]

These are the places where I oiled with HP 1300... 

These are the places where I oiled with HP 1300... 

I can see that the cannon pinion is moving as it should once I installed the pallet fork. I created a small video but was not able to upload it. It is a mov file type.

I need now to source a GR4014X mainspring, a stop ever #9433 and both calendar disc as the days/dates are peeling out...

This is the mido watch which holds the ETA Movement....

I just want to thanks all of you guys for your help, specially @eccentric59 who nailed it!

So, I would consider this case as closed unless of course any question from any of you...

Best regards

Fernando

 

 

8 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi Hiaz,

I see you didn't get this link usually given to new members by oldhippy, here , useful stuff.

704789946_TZIllustratedGlossary(2).pdf
4.2 MB
 

I could not download the file... I will tray to located. Many thanks. 

[Nucejoe]

4 hours ago, Hiaz224 said:

 

I could not download the file... I will tray to located. Many thanks. 

I just coppied this from a old post of  @oldhippy . 

Hang on , he'd be there in a sec.

[watchweasol]

Hi Fernando. Try this copy . 

TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf

This is the original copy I picked up some time ago.

[Hiaz224]

4 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Fernando. Try this copy . 

TZIllustratedGlossary.pdf 4.2 MB · 0 downloads

This is the original copy I picked up some time a 

Thanks! It is great. It will help me for sure…

By the way. Final photo of my project, best regards