Jump to content

How to remove the balance spring


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, rph952 said:

I hope this is close enough. And given my lack of experience, it's as good as I can get it. It's a $5 Waldan watch, so no worries.  To me it looks ok, although there's a small kink at the outer coil. The coil is flat. It was pointed out the spring might be too long. It could be, but I think it's original. Thanks for all your help! Now I have to reassemble the balance. I got some advice on how to orient the stud. I know how to guide the spring around the regulator pin and shut it. I'm not sure about the alignment between pins. I don't have a jewel, but I think this is what they're talking about (circled in red) in photo.

spring fixed.jpg

posts.jpg

Looks good, you've made a decent job of straightening it out. The terminal curve does look long but thats not given, something you will discover when you get it mounted up. In red is the impulse finger .

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, this is the impulse finger, typical for all Roskopf type movements.

Put the balance in movement with the cock, without hairspring. Rotate the balance and orient it as the finger drives the lever to ley in one line with the bearins of the balance. Then put mark by marker on the balance rim right against the hole for the stud in the stud holder. Then remove the balance and put the hairspring as the stud will stay agains the mark. Adjust it by small screwdriver in the collet slot.

Nice work on the spring, it looks good!

Edited by nevenbekriev
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi. The only problem is that the terminal curve has a kink and should be a smooth progression and where the spring enters the stud should be  not bent up, some adjustment may be required here even up the coils.   When you have sorted those out lay the spring on the cock as per nucejoes example for centering the spring.  The fact that the spring is pinched at the stud means no adjustment at that end so be careful not to snap it off at that point. Iam afraid is a cheap watch no jeweled ruby impulse pin there it uses a brass finger and a pin pallet.  You are doing a good job just be patient and careful. As you said it’s $5  watch but thats not the point, which is in doing this which is quite advanced for a beginner you are gaining a lot of experience.  I wish you well on the project.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Klassiker said:

That looks very good indeed. How long did it take you? Does it now pass the three tests I posted?

Not long. I've been watching vids. Chronoglide and Watch Repair Channel have some good info. Yes one one and two, but now sure what 3 means.

6 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

Yes, this is the impulse finger, typical for all Roskopf type movements.

Put the balance in movement with the cock, without hairspring. Rotate the balance and orient it as the finger drives the lever to ley in one line with the bearins of the balance. Then put mark by marker on the balance rim right against the hole for the stud in the stud holder. Then remove the balance and put the hairspring as the stud will stay agains the mark. Adjust it by small screwdriver in the collet slot.

Nice work on the spring, it looks good!

Neven: I did that, but not sure I understood where to put the mark. It's where the wheel bumps up against the palette fork. There's a tab at the bottom of the balance wheel I pointed out earlier. The speed adjustment up top won't budge either way. I'm concerned about putting too much pressure on it. It may be seized from old age. Oil might help?

balance wheel alone.jpg

It might be that I have to loosen the screws on the bottom of the balance to adjust speed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, rph952 said:

Not long. I've been watching vids. Chronoglide and Watch Repair Channel have some good info. Yes one one and two, but now sure what 3 means.

Neven: I did that, but not sure I understood where to put the mark. It's where the wheel bumps up against the palette fork. There's a tab at the bottom of the balance wheel I pointed out earlier. The speed adjustment up top won't budge either way. I'm concerned about putting too much pressure on it. It may be seized from old age. Oil might help?

balance wheel alone.jpg

It might be that I have to loosen the screws on the bottom of the balance to adjust speed?

Before removing the hairspring from the balance it is good practice to mark the stud's position on the balance wheel in order to help retrieve the same position of the collet about the staff. This is when the hairspring shape is good, in your case it wasn't so would not have been that helpful. So you now have to determine where the balance wheel shoud be when the hairspring stud is in the arm. The balance wheel finger must be in line with the escape wheel and the pallet fork jewels, the finger located in the fork slot between the horns while both the fork and balance are at rest, this will put the balance in beat when it is fully assembled.  When you have just the wheel itself in this position, hover the cock over the wheel as though it were about to be mounted on the plate and if the stud arm is a fixed one mark the position of the hole of the stud on the balance wheel rim. You can now mount the hairspring on the balance knowing that the wheel has it's in beat postion in the movement by lining up the stud and the mark you just made. Once lined up push the collet home making sure the stud is facing upwards ready to fit into it's hole. If as i mentioned earlier if the stud arm is not fixed and is adjustable then set the stud arm to a midwsy point so that you have adjustment room either way to fine hone the beat. The rate adjustment can be tight on these cheap movements if you are concerned then yes the 2 screws holding the balance jewel do keep that tightness. But also know they hold that jewel assembly together.  Take your time and  follow this slowly. 

2 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Before removing the hairspring from the balance it is good practice to mark the stud's position on the balance wheel in order to help retrieve the same position of the collet about the staff. This is when the hairspring shape is good, in your case it wasn't so would not have been that helpful. So you now have to determine where the balance wheel shoud be when the hairspring stud is in the arm. The balance wheel finger must be in line with the escape wheel and the pallet fork jewels, the finger located in the fork slot between the horns while both the fork and balance are at rest, this will put the balance in beat when it is fully assembled.  When you have just the wheel itself in this position, hover the cock over the wheel as though it were about to be mounted on the plate and if the stud arm is a fixed one mark the position of the hole of the stud on the balance wheel rim. You can now mount the hairspring on the balance knowing that the wheel has it's in beat postion in the movement by lining up the stud and the mark you just made. Once lined up push the collet home making sure the stud is facing upwards ready to fit into it's hole. If as i mentioned earlier if the stud arm is not fixed and is adjustable then set the stud arm to a midwsy point so that you have adjustment room either way to fine hone the beat. The rate adjustment can be tight on these cheap movements if you are concerned then yes the 2 screws holding the balance jewel do keep that tightness. But also know they hold that jewel assembly together.  Take your time and  follow this slowly. 

To add some simple clarity,  the two reference points that are important are the end of the hairspring ( the stud ) and the position of the impulse finger laying in the fork slot while it is at rest. From there logic will help you to understand the procedure of bringing the balance into beat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, rph952 said:

but now sure what 3 means

You are looking to shape the hairspring so that when you fit it back onto the balance staff, and the staff's pivots are in the jewels, and the stud is back in its hole, and the terminal curve is in the regulator, the hairspring is in a completely relaxed state. Check 3 is in other words "is the collet sitting exactly as it would if the staff were there?"

5 hours ago, rph952 said:

It may be seized from old age

On the underside of the cock you will find two tiny screws. They hold the entire lower jewel and regulator assembly together. You need to disassemble clean and lubricate the jewels and the regulator.

5 hours ago, rph952 said:

loosen the screws on the bottom of the balance to adjust speed?

The rate is adjusted wth the regulator on this balance assembly, not by any screws.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, nevenbekriev said:

...No speed adjustment there.

I haven't correctly understand the question and the information in it...

What You call speed adjustment should be the rate regulator. Yes, it should move and some force is needed to make it move. This is a cheap watch with no jewels, only one thing is shaped as cap jewel, but made of steel, and it is in the middle of the plate, which holds the regulator. You have to take off the plate and clean the steel 'jewel', as well as the hole of the pivot bearing in the cock. Then You will be able to see why the regulator does not move. You should clean the same way the bottom side balance bearing - there is a round plate entirelly made of steel there. After cleaning, assemble the plates and put some oil in the bearings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the balance spring mounted on the cock. I think this is the orientation of the stud requested, a red line drawn on one of the images I posted. I marked the new location of the balance wheel with two dots, repositioning it where requested. I don't know if this matters now, but the collet's original position was with the collet gap (the circle of metal with a slice cut out) pointing at the outer spring guide that can be adjusted with a screwdriver. The speed regulator arm is working now. Just needed oil. Thanks everyone for your help!

spring inserted.jpg

balance wheel marked.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • It's a matter of preference really. You should keep the #5 aside and just use them for fine hairspring work though; otherwise they will end up damaged and be useless for that. Some like #1, some #2, some #3 for general work. Some use brass or nickel tweezers for general work- this is good as they are less likely to scratch delicate parts, and are much "grippier". On that note, the finer the tweezer, the more likely it will be to want to launch parts.   I have a bunch of nickel tweezers that have been retouched so many times they are like 30% shorter than new. Those become handy for when you need very strong tweezers- just used a pair to unscrew the bond from inside a floating barrel. My general use tweezers the last few years are a couple of pair of #5 that have been sharpened enough times that the ends are now very strong; useless for hairspring work, great for general work. These are Dumont Dumostar, which is a much more tough alloy than the Dumoxel, and less brittle than their carbon steel ones.
    • Hold the end stone down in chaton with your tweezers to remove the rodico.   Once shock spring is locked in the setting, you can whipe / clean  any residue off the setting.     Swiss setting holds the spring in place but the spring in chinese setting  fall out.  To remove the srping from Swiss setting , you got to remove the setting or at least raise it .
    • I purchased a set of tweezers #1, 3 and 5). I pretty much just use the #1 all the time. Just wondering if there is a guide any guidance on when to use different tweezers. I suspect that many people have their own preferences, but given the many different shapes and sizes, there must be some method to the madness, as they say. 
    • Yeah - the spring on my incabloc seems to fall out a lot. I have noticed the people doing videos using the eta movement seems to have a much easier time manipulating the screen. I was wondering it is just more practice (probably) or if the Swiss movement just fits together better at the hinge. 
    • A Chaika 1601A based "Dupont" USSR era with a deep blue dial joins the 404 club. It needs a new crystal, which I probably have in my stash, but other than that, it needed nothing other than a clean and a new strap. The Chaika 1601A turns up regularly in Sekonda ladies watches from around the late seventies till the late eighties, although there seems to be some debate about when the Chaika 1601A went in to production, with some sites suggesting as late as 1985. It seems to me to be a much older design, with more in common with 1950s calibers than ones from the mid eighties.   It has slightly odd dimensions, for a gents watch, which I presume it is.  With the two hander dial, 17mm lugs and a case size that would not look out of place on a 1950s watch, and a touch of the beer bottle cap design of the Rolex Oyster, it is somewhat unique. Its origins are a little unclear. Mikrolisk has a couple of suggestions.  Despite its diminutive size, the relatively large 1601A balance makes for a reasonably accurate little watch. It isn't likely to make COSC standars, but it runs pretty well for what it is.   As you can see the dial changes colour quite markedly depending on the light. Quite attractive, and well worth the four quid it cost. ... and of course we have to have the "money shot" too. It may be possible to date this more accurately if anybody knows how to decode the serial number.
×
×
  • Create New...